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Conversations with Tyler / episode intelligence

Jennifer Pahlka on Reforming Government

9 Apr 2025 34 published claims 2 attributable people
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Speakers in the public record

Tyler CowenJennifer Pahlka

Claim mix

belief 16evaluation 6uncertainty 4preference 3prediction 2observation 1commitment 1recommendation 1

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Claim ledger

The useful parts, with receipts.

34 published records

01 / preference

She has a background in computer gaming, media, and most importantly for our purposes, I’m a big fan of her 2023 book called Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better.

“She has a background in computer gaming, media, and most importantly for our purposes, I’m a big fan of her 2023 book called Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better.”
Speaker
Tyler Cowen
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

03 / belief

I think that a more digital transformation approach that is instead able to change over time more quickly and say, “Wait, this target is no longer helping us get where we wanted to go.

“I think that a more digital transformation approach that is instead able to change over time more quickly and say, “Wait, this target is no longer helping us get where we wanted to go.”
Speaker
Jennifer Pahlka
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

04 / belief

I am somebody who would agree that you’re going to have to be far more tolerant of mistakes than we have been. I think a lot of people that I worked with agreed with that.

“I am somebody who would agree that you’re going to have to be far more tolerant of mistakes than we have been. I think a lot of people that I worked with agreed with that.”
Speaker
Jennifer Pahlka
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

05 / observation

We can’t imagine that in the federal civil service, and I’m not advocating for that, but I am advocating for us getting out of the trap of “this is the only way it can be” when clearly, even in our own country, there are 50 different models that we could pull from.

“We can’t imagine that in the federal civil service, and I’m not advocating for that, but I am advocating for us getting out of the trap of “this is the only way it can be” when clearly, even in our own country, there are 50 different models that we could pull from.”
Speaker
Jennifer Pahlka
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

12 / belief

If we think about what has worked, it seems to me that outsourcing nonbureaucratic activity to, say, Palantir, Anduril has been very cost-effective, probably militarily effective.

“If we think about what has worked, it seems to me that outsourcing nonbureaucratic activity to, say, Palantir, Anduril has been very cost-effective, probably militarily effective.”
Speaker
Tyler Cowen
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

15 / belief

Everyone is very concerned — I think understandably so — about, for instance, some of the younger and less experienced members of the DOGE team getting access to systems.

“Everyone is very concerned — I think understandably so — about, for instance, some of the younger and less experienced members of the DOGE team getting access to systems.”
Speaker
Jennifer Pahlka
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

17 / belief

I experienced that myself helping start USDS, the United States Digital Service. It’s creating something new, but it still — and I think, even up until inauguration day — just had far less power than the existing infrastructures, CIOs of agencies, the procurement frameworks.

“I experienced that myself helping start USDS, the United States Digital Service. It’s creating something new, but it still — and I think, even up until inauguration day — just had far less power than the existing infrastructures, CIOs of agencies, the procurement frameworks.”
Speaker
Jennifer Pahlka
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

21 / uncertainty

We’re going to see a very radical shaking out that will go fully unadvertised, but at the end of it all, geopolitics will be very different. I don’t know that France can build an AI good enough, actually.

“We’re going to see a very radical shaking out that will go fully unadvertised, but at the end of it all, geopolitics will be very different. I don’t know that France can build an AI good enough, actually.”
Speaker
Tyler Cowen
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

25 / prediction

We’ll either end up, I think, even further privatizing not just the software, but the whole operations as the software and the operations are increasingly melded — again, this is not new — or we’ll be forced finally to gain the internal competence that we have always needed and start to do this a little bit better.

“We’ll either end up, I think, even further privatizing not just the software, but the whole operations as the software and the operations are increasingly melded — again, this is not new — or we’ll be forced finally to gain the internal competence that we have always needed and start to do this a little bit better.”
Speaker
Jennifer Pahlka
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

28 / recommendation

If you want your government to be able to achieve its goals — and I think New York’s got some good goals that they’re not achieving — you need to be able to hire the right people and fire the wrong ones, so you’ve got to look at that civil service system.

“If you want your government to be able to achieve its goals — and I think New York’s got some good goals that they’re not achieving — you need to be able to hire the right people and fire the wrong ones, so you’ve got to look at that civil service system.”
Speaker
Jennifer Pahlka
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

30 / evaluation

They are anxious because they feel like the bureaucracy doesn’t do what they told them to do. It’s not a surprise that they don’t because of the structures, but the change that we’re talking about, I think, is really profound.

“They are anxious because they feel like the bureaucracy doesn’t do what they told them to do. It’s not a surprise that they don’t because of the structures, but the change that we’re talking about, I think, is really profound.”
Speaker
Jennifer Pahlka
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

31 / evaluation

I think another thing people don’t recognize when they’re trying to make comparisons between the way we run our government and any other country is that we have policy complexity and legacy that just goes back further than they do.

“I think another thing people don’t recognize when they’re trying to make comparisons between the way we run our government and any other country is that we have policy complexity and legacy that just goes back further than they do.”
Speaker
Jennifer Pahlka
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

32 / prediction

” He turned to me and, in front of everyone, he said, “You’re right except it needs to be 50 percent because when we’ve had 15 percent or 20 percent cuts, it doesn’t shock the system enough to actually change behavior.

“” He turned to me and, in front of everyone, he said, “You’re right except it needs to be 50 percent because when we’ve had 15 percent or 20 percent cuts, it doesn’t shock the system enough to actually change behavior.”
Speaker
Jennifer Pahlka
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

33 / evaluation

On net, it passes a cost-benefit test, but the agency internally never seemed willing to actually get rid of the bad stuff, all the contracting arrangements which made American Congress people happy because it was dollars sent to America, but way inflated overhead and fixed costs.

“On net, it passes a cost-benefit test, but the agency internally never seemed willing to actually get rid of the bad stuff, all the contracting arrangements which made American Congress people happy because it was dollars sent to America, but way inflated overhead and fixed costs.”
Speaker
Tyler Cowen
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler
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