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Dwarkesh Podcast / episode intelligence

China is killing the US on energy. Does that mean they’ll win AGI? — Casey Handmer

15 Aug 2025 18 published claims 2 attributable people

Speakers in the public record

Claim mix

evaluation 4prediction 3commitment 2uncertainty 2belief 2preference 2observation 1disagreement 1recommendation 1

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Every row below preserves an exact excerpt. Identified speakers are linked; unresolved voices are labeled and excluded from people counts.

Claim ledger

The useful parts, with receipts.

18 published records

01 / commitment

Right now we are export controlling chips for the purpose of keeping our AI lead and we recognize this is a key input in our ability to compete in AI. So we are going to export control China's ability to have these chips.

“Right now we are export controlling chips for the purpose of keeping our AI lead and we recognize this is a key input in our ability to compete in AI. So we are going to export control China's ability to have these chips.”
Speaker
Dwarkesh Patel
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

02 / evaluation

From countries that they don't control, don't have strong diplomatic relationships with, on fleets of oil tankers that they can't defend because their navy doesn't have the ability to operate effectively in the Indian Ocean.

“From countries that they don't control, don't have strong diplomatic relationships with, on fleets of oil tankers that they can't defend because their navy doesn't have the ability to operate effectively in the Indian Ocean.”
Speaker
Casey Handmer
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

03 / observation

What matters is having the chips at competitive capabilities per chip, and enough of them installed in your PCBs, in your data centers, hooked up to your liquid cooling, ready to go.

“What matters is having the chips at competitive capabilities per chip, and enough of them installed in your PCBs, in your data centers, hooked up to your liquid cooling, ready to go.”
Speaker
Casey Handmer
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

06 / belief

One of the ways that silicon can be refined is by turning it into silane, which is a silicon tetrahydride. I'm not really a chemist, but I think that's right.

“One of the ways that silicon can be refined is by turning it into silane, which is a silicon tetrahydride. I'm not really a chemist, but I think that's right.”
Speaker
Casey Handmer
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

07 / uncertainty

At current hardware efficiencies. I don't know if it's worth spelling out. Basically, an H100 has the same amount of flops as a human brain, but also uses way more energy than a human brain.

“At current hardware efficiencies. I don't know if it's worth spelling out. Basically, an H100 has the same amount of flops as a human brain, but also uses way more energy than a human brain.”
Speaker
Dwarkesh Patel
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

10 / evaluation

, were like, "We're not ramping up HBM production because HBM is used largely for AI workloads, and if this demand doesn't continue, then our additional manufacturing capacity for HBM will not have been worth it.

“, were like, "We're not ramping up HBM production because HBM is used largely for AI workloads, and if this demand doesn't continue, then our additional manufacturing capacity for HBM will not have been worth it.”
Speaker
Dwarkesh Patel
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

14 / preference

Here I'm quite bullish on xAI in particular because the Elon cinematic universe has just done so much industrial stuff compared to the Googles and Metas of this world.

“Here I'm quite bullish on xAI in particular because the Elon cinematic universe has just done so much industrial stuff compared to the Googles and Metas of this world.”
Speaker
Casey Handmer
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

15 / recommendation

In practice, it's going to be cheaper just to double the size of your battery because batteries are going to keep getting cheaper and cheaper. But what it does mean is you can say, “Well, I know that I'm going to have three low days, so I will start curtailing now by 5% so I don't have to curtail by 50% in three days.

“In practice, it's going to be cheaper just to double the size of your battery because batteries are going to keep getting cheaper and cheaper. But what it does mean is you can say, “Well, I know that I'm going to have three low days, so I will start curtailing now by 5% so I don't have to curtail by 50% in three days.”
Speaker
Casey Handmer
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

16 / prediction

I think we'll end up seeing batteries next to the solar arrays, and batteries in the middle of the grid at substations, and batteries on the sites of existing power plants that get turned off, and batteries in your house, and batteries everywhere in between.

“I think we'll end up seeing batteries next to the solar arrays, and batteries in the middle of the grid at substations, and batteries on the sites of existing power plants that get turned off, and batteries in your house, and batteries everywhere in between.”
Speaker
Casey Handmer
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

17 / evaluation

I agree that they've obviously made bad decisions, but even if you have the poorest Chinese people anywhere in the world, they can still be quite rich.

“I agree that they've obviously made bad decisions, but even if you have the poorest Chinese people anywhere in the world, they can still be quite rich.”
Speaker
Dwarkesh Patel
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

18 / commitment

Or if I put money in an escrow account that says after 20 years we have to pull this out—we'll pull all the solar out of the desert and it goes back to being desert—I will do that in a heartbeat. But if I have to hire another biologist for $10,000 to be like, "Well, on that 40-acre plot we found a tuft of grass which we believe might be one of the 20 species that this particular species of bee sometimes eats, and this species of bee is not technically endangered but it might be at some point in the future… Therefore, you can't deploy there.

“Or if I put money in an escrow account that says after 20 years we have to pull this out—we'll pull all the solar out of the desert and it goes back to being desert—I will do that in a heartbeat. But if I have to hire another biologist for $10,000 to be like, "Well, on that 40-acre plot we found a tuft of grass which we believe might be one of the 20 species that this particular species of bee sometimes eats, and this species of bee is not technically endangered but it might be at some point in the future… Therefore, you can't deploy there.”
Speaker
Casey Handmer
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast
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