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Lenny's Podcast / episode intelligence

Relentless curiosity, radical accountability, and HubSpot’s winning growth formula | Christopher Miller (VP of Product, Growth and AI)

10 Aug 2023 22 published claims 2 attributable people

Speakers in the public record

Claim mix

belief 9evaluation 6recommendation 3preference 2uncertainty 1prediction 1

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Every row below preserves an exact excerpt. Identified speakers are linked; unresolved voices are labeled and excluded from people counts.

Claim ledger

The useful parts, with receipts.

22 published records

01 / recommendation

Likes Chop Wood Carry Water.

“Truthfully, I don't read a ton of books. Got a one and a half year old. I also probably didn't read a ton of books before, but it's a nice excuse to have. That's why I don't have time to read today. But when I think of books that I think about a lot still, there's a book called Everybody Lies, and it's a book... I believe the guy who wrote it was a data scientist at Google. And part of the message is that everybody's a data scientist and really trying to democratize the idea of using data in your everyday lives to make decisions and demystifying the idea of data science. But the way he kind of does this is through comparing Google search data and what we know people to be actively looking for answers for, with sort of qualitative survey data. And people lie on surveys all the time for a variety of different reasons, but no one lies to Google because it's transactional. If I lie to Google, I'm not going to get what I want. And so it kind of really explores what it means to tell the truth and how honest we are with ourselves and with the internet. And so I really love that book. The other book I really love is Chop Wood Carry Water, which it's like a parable about a young boy who wants to become a samurai. But the sort of message of the book is about falling in love with the process, especially the most mundane parts of a process of becoming great at something. And that's something I... It's a good reminder about patience, humility, and sort of taking things one step at a time. And I often reference Chop Wood Carry Water a lot.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

03 / belief

Figure out what you can do in your spare time that they can offload to you and do a little bit of volunteer labor, even if that's just shadowing because I think just getting that context and understanding the sort of rhythm of how a team ideates and defines problems and prioritizes and ship software is the experience that's going to be the most important because a lot of product management is also managing personalities and figuring out how people want to work with you and figuring out how you work for them.

“Figure out what you can do in your spare time that they can offload to you and do a little bit of volunteer labor, even if that's just shadowing because I think just getting that context and understanding the sort of rhythm of how a team ideates and defines problems and prioritizes and ship software is the experience that's going to be the most important because a lot of product management is also managing personalities and figuring out how people want to work with you and figuring out how you work for them.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

04 / belief

Give value before you extract value, and I think that was at the core of inbound marketing at its inception, that outbound marketing was asking for something from customers or prospects before giving anything.

“Give value before you extract value, and I think that was at the core of inbound marketing at its inception, that outbound marketing was asking for something from customers or prospects before giving anything.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

05 / belief

I think there's usually a lower barrier to entry to do product management at a smaller shop, which they might not have as much access to the best talent out there, but I think what you may often give up in those instances is structure to your own sort of professional development and formal training and education and potentially even the opportunity to work for people who are truly battle tested and have seen the movie several times and can actually wisdom share because truthfully, it looks different in every company, and so it is one of those functions.

“I think there's usually a lower barrier to entry to do product management at a smaller shop, which they might not have as much access to the best talent out there, but I think what you may often give up in those instances is structure to your own sort of professional development and formal training and education and potentially even the opportunity to work for people who are truly battle tested and have seen the movie several times and can actually wisdom share because truthfully, it looks different in every company, and so it is one of those functions.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

06 / belief

My wife has been really into really high quality margaritas, made at home, and we're big into Aperol Spritz in the summer, so I would say that that's usually what dominates the happy hour rotation these days.

“My wife has been really into really high quality margaritas, made at home, and we're big into Aperol Spritz in the summer, so I would say that that's usually what dominates the happy hour rotation these days.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

07 / belief

There'll definitely be more roles opening up in the fall, but I think most immediately I'll be looking for a group product manager to work on the AI platform team that I'm leading.

“There'll definitely be more roles opening up in the fall, but I think most immediately I'll be looking for a group product manager to work on the AI platform team that I'm leading.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

08 / belief

Before you actually move on to the next one, I want to spend a little time on this one because I think people hear this and they're like, "Yes, okay, we're going to be customer obsessed.

“Before you actually move on to the next one, I want to spend a little time on this one because I think people hear this and they're like, "Yes, okay, we're going to be customer obsessed.”
Speaker
Lenny Rachitsky
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

09 / uncertainty

I've witnessed fierce and passionate debates internally that the root of what the people in the debate were really trying to unpack was what was the best thing for the customer. And so, really having that be central to our dogma and how we think about the business and why the company exists in the first place, really walking the walk there is something that I don't know that that's true everywhere.

“I've witnessed fierce and passionate debates internally that the root of what the people in the debate were really trying to unpack was what was the best thing for the customer. And so, really having that be central to our dogma and how we think about the business and why the company exists in the first place, really walking the walk there is something that I don't know that that's true everywhere.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

10 / belief

The time that they donated to me, the time that they volunteered to me and for me, calling them mentors, I think sells what they were very short.

“The time that they donated to me, the time that they volunteered to me and for me, calling them mentors, I think sells what they were very short.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

11 / belief

Maybe they're coming for a platform where data migration is a huge fear they have, and that's not something that's easy to do in a self-service environment yet. I think that's going to change over time.

“Maybe they're coming for a platform where data migration is a huge fear they have, and that's not something that's easy to do in a self-service environment yet. I think that's going to change over time.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

12 / belief

I would say the early years of doing freemium. And for the record, there's definitely an iteration of the growth team before I joined that, you know really like Brian Balfour was the person who I would say injected that first dose of PLG DNA into HubSpot.

“I would say the early years of doing freemium. And for the record, there's definitely an iteration of the growth team before I joined that, you know really like Brian Balfour was the person who I would say injected that first dose of PLG DNA into HubSpot.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

13 / preference

I was actually less of a feature PM and I was sort of more of a growth PM in my DNA, and so I sort of looked at this through a completely different lens and I guess I understood that what we were trying to actually do was product-led growth, but we didn't really have the shared vocabulary to call it that. And so I think to answer your question, I think I was just willing to take some risks and really push for the things that I believed made sense even though maybe based on the titles that I had at the time, I wasn't sort of inherently given a seat at the table and really pushed my away into some of these conversations and then was eventually invited to them.

“I was actually less of a feature PM and I was sort of more of a growth PM in my DNA, and so I sort of looked at this through a completely different lens and I guess I understood that what we were trying to actually do was product-led growth, but we didn't really have the shared vocabulary to call it that. And so I think to answer your question, I think I was just willing to take some risks and really push for the things that I believed made sense even though maybe based on the titles that I had at the time, I wasn't sort of inherently given a seat at the table and really pushed my away into some of these conversations and then was eventually invited to them.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

14 / evaluation

It was predominantly product driven leads like PQLs. And so we were literally sending everything to the sales team, which it was running revenue, but certainly opportunities for efficiency because it was the first time we'd really had a product at a price point that could be transactional and not a highly considered purchase.

“It was predominantly product driven leads like PQLs. And so we were literally sending everything to the sales team, which it was running revenue, but certainly opportunities for efficiency because it was the first time we'd really had a product at a price point that could be transactional and not a highly considered purchase.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

15 / evaluation

I think a lot of companies sort of replicated that over the years, but by being really open and transparent about the culture both internally and externally, I think one, it internally creates alignment and it gives everyone something to point to to enforce why did we choose to work with each other the way that we work with each other.

“I think a lot of companies sort of replicated that over the years, but by being really open and transparent about the culture both internally and externally, I think one, it internally creates alignment and it gives everyone something to point to to enforce why did we choose to work with each other the way that we work with each other.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

16 / evaluation

Valuing simple solutions to really hard problems, I think if building the next super sophisticated widget is the thing that gets you out of bed in the morning, growth might not be for you, I think the best growth product leaders and growth minds that I've worked with over the years or have had the privilege of learning from over the years, I think the thing that I noticed about them is they're almost ambivalent to the solution and certainly ambivalent to how complex a solution may or may not be.

“Valuing simple solutions to really hard problems, I think if building the next super sophisticated widget is the thing that gets you out of bed in the morning, growth might not be for you, I think the best growth product leaders and growth minds that I've worked with over the years or have had the privilege of learning from over the years, I think the thing that I noticed about them is they're almost ambivalent to the solution and certainly ambivalent to how complex a solution may or may not be.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

17 / evaluation

I don't know that I would look back at what I shipped back then or what we shipped back then, and say they were the best possible solutions or best possible product.

“I don't know that I would look back at what I shipped back then or what we shipped back then, and say they were the best possible solutions or best possible product.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

18 / preference

I can take hard feedback, and I like it because if I get better feedback than the people I'm competing against, I think I can beat them over time if I work hard enough.

“I can take hard feedback, and I like it because if I get better feedback than the people I'm competing against, I think I can beat them over time if I work hard enough.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

19 / prediction

If we invest in the type of work this team is doing, that's how we're going to build efficiencies over time." And it's also, we like that because it's in line with what our customers are already expecting from us.

“If we invest in the type of work this team is doing, that's how we're going to build efficiencies over time." And it's also, we like that because it's in line with what our customers are already expecting from us.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

20 / evaluation

I think that's something that even if you're a brand new PM you come across soon enough. And then the other piece there, I really love this metaphor of scraping your knees because I find that to be so important to becoming a PM is you think you could just read these things, take some courses and you got this, and you're not going to mess up, but I find that messing up is so important in helping to learn to do the job because like you said, there's relationships and people and changing plans and leaders, and it's just like you're not going to get it right and you learn how to deal with all these things by messing it up.

“I think that's something that even if you're a brand new PM you come across soon enough. And then the other piece there, I really love this metaphor of scraping your knees because I find that to be so important to becoming a PM is you think you could just read these things, take some courses and you got this, and you're not going to mess up, but I find that messing up is so important in helping to learn to do the job because like you said, there's relationships and people and changing plans and leaders, and it's just like you're not going to get it right and you learn how to deal with all these things by messing it up.”
Speaker
Lenny Rachitsky
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

21 / evaluation

I think we were prepared for the worst, and we actually caught a bit of the Covid tailwind and a lot of other businesses did, because companies who never had to think about digital marketing all of a sudden had to, and it was urgent.

“I think we were prepared for the worst, and we actually caught a bit of the Covid tailwind and a lot of other businesses did, because companies who never had to think about digital marketing all of a sudden had to, and it was urgent.”
Speaker
Chris Miller
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast
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