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How To Hire AI Engineers — with James Brady & Adam Wiggins of Elicit

21 Jun 2024 22 published claims 3 attributable people

Speakers in the public record

Claim mix

evaluation 9belief 7preference 2recommendation 2prediction 1commitment 1

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The useful parts, with receipts.

22 published records

01 / evaluation

Yeah, it is, you, you definitely need to have a different prompt if you want to stay within a few percentage points degradation Like I, like I said before, and that certainly comes at a cost, like fallbacks and backups and things like this It's really easy for them to go stale and kind of flake out on you because they're off the beaten track And In our particular case inside of Elicit, we do have fallbacks for a number of kind of crucial functions where it's going to be very obvious if something has gone wrong, but we don't have fallbacks in all cases.

“Yeah, it is, you, you definitely need to have a different prompt if you want to stay within a few percentage points degradation Like I, like I said before, and that certainly comes at a cost, like fallbacks and backups and things like this It's really easy for them to go stale and kind of flake out on you because they're off the beaten track And In our particular case inside of Elicit, we do have fallbacks for a number of kind of crucial functions where it's going to be very obvious if something has gone wrong, but we don't have fallbacks in all cases.”
Speaker
James Brady
Publisher
Latent Space

02 / evaluation

One thing I'll, one thing I'll mention quickly is that a lot of the stuff that you mentioned is typically not part of the normal interview loop. It's actually really hard to interview for because this is the stuff that you polish out in, as you go into production, the coding interviews are typically about the happy path.

“One thing I'll, one thing I'll mention quickly is that a lot of the stuff that you mentioned is typically not part of the normal interview loop. It's actually really hard to interview for because this is the stuff that you polish out in, as you go into production, the coding interviews are typically about the happy path.”
Speaker
Shawn Wang
Publisher
Latent Space

04 / evaluation

I have some appreciation, I think when you had me on your podcast, I was still working at Temporal and that was like a nice Framework, if you live within Temporal's boundaries, you can pretend that all those faults don't exist, and you can, you can code in a sort of very fault tolerant way.

“I have some appreciation, I think when you had me on your podcast, I was still working at Temporal and that was like a nice Framework, if you live within Temporal's boundaries, you can pretend that all those faults don't exist, and you can, you can code in a sort of very fault tolerant way.”
Speaker
Shawn Wang
Publisher
Latent Space

07 / belief

I do think that, The way that you set up the ML problem to kind of ask the right questions, if you see what I mean, rather than the specific phrasing of exactly how you're doing chain of thought or few shot or something in the prompt I think the way that you set it up is, is probably going to be remain to be trickier for longer.

“I do think that, The way that you set up the ML problem to kind of ask the right questions, if you see what I mean, rather than the specific phrasing of exactly how you're doing chain of thought or few shot or something in the prompt I think the way that you set it up is, is probably going to be remain to be trickier for longer.”
Speaker
James Brady
Publisher
Latent Space

08 / belief

I forgot to mention that you also run Ink and Switch, which is one of the leading research labs, in my mind, of the tools for thought productivity space, , whatever people mentioned there, or maybe future of programming even, a little bit of that.

“I forgot to mention that you also run Ink and Switch, which is one of the leading research labs, in my mind, of the tools for thought productivity space, , whatever people mentioned there, or maybe future of programming even, a little bit of that.”
Speaker
Shawn Wang
Publisher
Latent Space

10 / belief

I mean , I, I selected as one of my keynotes, Justine Tunney, working at LlamaFall in Mozilla, because I think there's a lot of people interested in that stuff.

“I mean , I, I selected as one of my keynotes, Justine Tunney, working at LlamaFall in Mozilla, because I think there's a lot of people interested in that stuff.”
Speaker
Shawn Wang
Publisher
Latent Space

11 / belief

The other footnote I would put again on the specifics, that's, I think, general sourcing for any kind of role, but for AI engineering specifically, you're not looking for professional experience at this stage.

“The other footnote I would put again on the specifics, that's, I think, general sourcing for any kind of role, but for AI engineering specifically, you're not looking for professional experience at this stage.”
Speaker
Adam Wiggins
Publisher
Latent Space

12 / prediction

You even shared your job description, your reading list, and your interview loop. So, , if anyone's looking to hire AI engineers, I expect this to be the definitive piece and definitive podcast covering it.

“You even shared your job description, your reading list, and your interview loop. So, , if anyone's looking to hire AI engineers, I expect this to be the definitive piece and definitive podcast covering it.”
Speaker
Shawn Wang
Publisher
Latent Space

14 / evaluation

I'd be interested in understanding better what the specific problem is that they're looking to solve with that, whether it is to do with data security or centralization of billing, or if they have a kind of Suite of prompts or something like this that people can choose from so they don't need to reinvent the wheel again and again I wouldn't be able to say without understanding the problems and their proposed solutions , which kind of situations that be better or worse fit for but yeah for illicit where really the The secret sauce, if there is a secret sauce, is which models we're using, how we're using them, how we're combining them, how we're thinking about the user problem, how we're thinking about all these pieces coming together.

“I'd be interested in understanding better what the specific problem is that they're looking to solve with that, whether it is to do with data security or centralization of billing, or if they have a kind of Suite of prompts or something like this that people can choose from so they don't need to reinvent the wheel again and again I wouldn't be able to say without understanding the problems and their proposed solutions , which kind of situations that be better or worse fit for but yeah for illicit where really the The secret sauce, if there is a secret sauce, is which models we're using, how we're using them, how we're combining them, how we're thinking about the user problem, how we're thinking about all these pieces coming together.”
Speaker
James Brady
Publisher
Latent Space

15 / preference

It's kind of also an opportunity to learn at the feet of some real masters in this space, people who have been working on it since it was, before it was cool, if you want to put it that way. So for me, the last couple of months have been this crash course, and why I sometimes describe myself as an internal journalist is I'm helping to write some, some posts, including Supporting James in this article here we're doing for latent space where I'm just bringing my writing skill and that sort of thing to bear on their very deep domain expertise around language models and applying them to the real world and kind of surface that in a way that's I don't know, accessible, legible, that, that sort of thing.

“It's kind of also an opportunity to learn at the feet of some real masters in this space, people who have been working on it since it was, before it was cool, if you want to put it that way. So for me, the last couple of months have been this crash course, and why I sometimes describe myself as an internal journalist is I'm helping to write some, some posts, including Supporting James in this article here we're doing for latent space where I'm just bringing my writing skill and that sort of thing to bear on their very deep domain expertise around language models and applying them to the real world and kind of surface that in a way that's I don't know, accessible, legible, that, that sort of thing.”
Speaker
Adam Wiggins
Publisher
Latent Space

16 / evaluation

The, the language models is this kind of chaotic medium, this, this dragon, this wild horse you're, you're, you're riding and trying to guide in the direction that is going to be useful and reliable to users, because I think.

“The, the language models is this kind of chaotic medium, this, this dragon, this wild horse you're, you're, you're riding and trying to guide in the direction that is going to be useful and reliable to users, because I think.”
Speaker
Adam Wiggins
Publisher
Latent Space

17 / evaluation

Because of course, it's evolving, you need to figure it out, like the tacit knowledge and the experience of putting it in practice and seeing what those real What those real needs are are, are critical, and so it's, it is really about finding the right time to say yes, we can generalize, we can make standards and abstractions, whether it's for a company, whether it's for, , a library, an open source library, for a whole class of apps and it, it's very much a, much more of a A judgment call slash just a sense of taste or , experience to be able to say, Yeah, we're at the right point.

“Because of course, it's evolving, you need to figure it out, like the tacit knowledge and the experience of putting it in practice and seeing what those real What those real needs are are, are critical, and so it's, it is really about finding the right time to say yes, we can generalize, we can make standards and abstractions, whether it's for a company, whether it's for, , a library, an open source library, for a whole class of apps and it, it's very much a, much more of a A judgment call slash just a sense of taste or , experience to be able to say, Yeah, we're at the right point.”
Speaker
Adam Wiggins
Publisher
Latent Space

18 / evaluation

If some AI engineer would not know, I don't know what, , I don't know where we would stoop to, to call something required knowledge, , or you're not part of the cool kids club.

“If some AI engineer would not know, I don't know what, , I don't know where we would stoop to, to call something required knowledge, , or you're not part of the cool kids club.”
Speaker
Shawn Wang
Publisher
Latent Space

19 / recommendation

In terms of the system design interview, that's a little easier to prompt this kind of fault first mindset because it's very easy in that situation just to say, let's imagine that, , this node dies, how does the app still work?

“In terms of the system design interview, that's a little easier to prompt this kind of fault first mindset because it's very easy in that situation just to say, let's imagine that, , this node dies, how does the app still work?”
Speaker
James Brady
Publisher
Latent Space

21 / evaluation

I, I do often say that I think AI engineering is about 90 percent software engineering with like the, the 10 percent of like really strong really differentiated AI engineering.

“I, I do often say that I think AI engineering is about 90 percent software engineering with like the, the 10 percent of like really strong really differentiated AI engineering.”
Speaker
Shawn Wang
Publisher
Latent Space

22 / recommendation

We share the types all the way from the Backend Python code all the way to the to the front end in TypeScript and find that is I mean We'd probably do this anyway But it really helps one reason around the shapes of the data which can going to be going back and forth and that's really important When you can't rely upon You you're going to have to coerce the data that you get back from the ML if you want if you want for it to be structured basically speaking and The second thing which is related is we use checked exceptions inside our Python code base, which means that we can use the type system to make sure we are handling, properly handling, all of the, the various things that could be going wrong, all the different exceptions that could be getting raised.

“We share the types all the way from the Backend Python code all the way to the to the front end in TypeScript and find that is I mean We'd probably do this anyway But it really helps one reason around the shapes of the data which can going to be going back and forth and that's really important When you can't rely upon You you're going to have to coerce the data that you get back from the ML if you want if you want for it to be structured basically speaking and The second thing which is related is we use checked exceptions inside our Python code base, which means that we can use the type system to make sure we are handling, properly handling, all of the, the various things that could be going wrong, all the different exceptions that could be getting raised.”
Speaker
James Brady
Publisher
Latent Space
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