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Lenny's Podcast / episode intelligence

Slack founder: Mental models for building products people love ft. Stewart Butterfield

20 Nov 2025 18 published claims 2 attributable people
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Speakers in the public record

Stewart ButterfieldLenny Rachitsky

Claim mix

evaluation 6belief 5preference 4recommendation 2commitment 1

Evidence policy

Every row below preserves an exact excerpt. Identified speakers are linked; unresolved voices are labeled and excluded from people counts.

Claim ledger

The useful parts, with receipts.

18 published records

01 / preference

I want to give an example at the absolute extreme because I actually don't know how long this has been, but I try not to criticize other people's software so much because I'm very familiar with the trade-offs and prioritization and how hard it can be and blah, blah, blah, blah.

“I want to give an example at the absolute extreme because I actually don't know how long this has been, but I try not to criticize other people's software so much because I'm very familiar with the trade-offs and prioritization and how hard it can be and blah, blah, blah, blah.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

02 / recommendation

And then now I can't live without Slack. And essentially this is a lens you use to figure out where to spend product resources because if you don't get up that curve to I get it and I can't live without it, nothing else matters.

“And then now I can't live without Slack. And essentially this is a lens you use to figure out where to spend product resources because if you don't get up that curve to I get it and I can't live without it, nothing else matters.”
Speaker
Lenny Rachitsky
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

03 / belief

Again, it really makes a difference in those cases where people do have an intent and they do know what they're trying to do is a poor approach when the challenge is really comprehension, and I think the secret is most, 70%, 80% or whatever of a product design is in that comprehension step because people, if they do ever open the preferences tab and look at all the options, rarely have an idea.

“Again, it really makes a difference in those cases where people do have an intent and they do know what they're trying to do is a poor approach when the challenge is really comprehension, and I think the secret is most, 70%, 80% or whatever of a product design is in that comprehension step because people, if they do ever open the preferences tab and look at all the options, rarely have an idea.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

05 / commitment

"Apply this credit to your account, and just send you a message that it happened. And by the way, we will do it on the aggregate for downtime, even if the issue didn't affect you as a customer.

“"Apply this credit to your account, and just send you a message that it happened. And by the way, we will do it on the aggregate for downtime, even if the issue didn't affect you as a customer.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

07 / belief

Yeah. And 100%, that aspect of it is not original because I think that's something that marketers have done for a long time, certainly in the marcom and advertising.

“Yeah. And 100%, that aspect of it is not original because I think that's something that marketers have done for a long time, certainly in the marcom and advertising.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

08 / belief

Slack leaned into delight and experience and craft and a great experience. And you just as a product leader, I'd say are known as very taste forward, very craft oriented leader, which is pretty rare and I think continues to be rare.

“Slack leaned into delight and experience and craft and a great experience. And you just as a product leader, I'd say are known as very taste forward, very craft oriented leader, which is pretty rare and I think continues to be rare.”
Speaker
Lenny Rachitsky
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

09 / evaluation

Creating the distance so that you can make an intellectual rational decision about it rather than an emotional decision is essential. And the reason I say you have to be coldly rational about it is because it's fucking humiliating.

“Creating the distance so that you can make an intellectual rational decision about it rather than an emotional decision is essential. And the reason I say you have to be coldly rational about it is because it's fucking humiliating.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

12 / preference

Just the specific example of, "We don't sell saddles here," just to quickly communicate this to folks, and correct me if I'm missing anything, is just instead of, "Hey, look at this amazing saddle we've bought," which you want to communicate as, "Here, go horseback riding.

“Just the specific example of, "We don't sell saddles here," just to quickly communicate this to folks, and correct me if I'm missing anything, is just instead of, "Hey, look at this amazing saddle we've bought," which you want to communicate as, "Here, go horseback riding.”
Speaker
Lenny Rachitsky
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

13 / evaluation

I think that there's many reasons why Slack was successful at the moment. It was successful and we think we had a bunch of really wonderful tailwinds and all of that stuff, but it wouldn't have grown the way it did without those little conveniences which caused people to form an emotional connection because a lot of our growth came from startup A uses Slack, and then someone leaves startup A for startup B, and startup B doesn't use Slack yet.

“I think that there's many reasons why Slack was successful at the moment. It was successful and we think we had a bunch of really wonderful tailwinds and all of that stuff, but it wouldn't have grown the way it did without those little conveniences which caused people to form an emotional connection because a lot of our growth came from startup A uses Slack, and then someone leaves startup A for startup B, and startup B doesn't use Slack yet.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

14 / evaluation

Welcome to my website," and there's a bunch of BS and there's a bunch of stuff that doesn't make any sense and the buttons are inscrutable. And it's unclear what to do next because I think that my thing is so important and I don't recognize that you are at work and you were late this morning and you have to go to the bathroom and you're just a regular human being who has stuff going on, that you're concerned that your kid is a fuck-up and they're getting in trouble at school and stuff like that.

“Welcome to my website," and there's a bunch of BS and there's a bunch of stuff that doesn't make any sense and the buttons are inscrutable. And it's unclear what to do next because I think that my thing is so important and I don't recognize that you are at work and you were late this morning and you have to go to the bathroom and you're just a regular human being who has stuff going on, that you're concerned that your kid is a fuck-up and they're getting in trouble at school and stuff like that.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

15 / evaluation

I think in many cases, people will add a feature, it's not good enough and so people don't use it or appreciate it, but now you've added some complexity to the app and then people give up or take it back or they try something in testing and they don't get the results they want, and so they decide that this a thing is worth doing.

“I think in many cases, people will add a feature, it's not good enough and so people don't use it or appreciate it, but now you've added some complexity to the app and then people give up or take it back or they try something in testing and they don't get the results they want, and so they decide that this a thing is worth doing.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

16 / preference

Those examples are just to me all over the place. And the reason I don't use most software where there was an actual choice point or the reason I don't use most features where there was a choice point for me is because I didn't understand what they were going to do and I don't give a shit.

“Those examples are just to me all over the place. And the reason I don't use most software where there was an actual choice point or the reason I don't use most features where there was a choice point for me is because I didn't understand what they were going to do and I don't give a shit.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

17 / evaluation

Anyway, that was a little bit longer than I intended to go on this example, but it's crazy because no one's going to switch to Gmail or to G Suite, Google Calendar from Outlook Exchange because the time zone picker is good, so maybe in some sense it doesn't matter, but at the same time there's a real value in delighting customers and there's an emotional connection that they form or don't form.

“Anyway, that was a little bit longer than I intended to go on this example, but it's crazy because no one's going to switch to Gmail or to G Suite, Google Calendar from Outlook Exchange because the time zone picker is good, so maybe in some sense it doesn't matter, but at the same time there's a real value in delighting customers and there's an emotional connection that they form or don't form.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

18 / preference

Yeah. And honestly, it's been many more than 10 years since I read it, so I don't even remember all of the examples in the book, but as a mantra that was up there with utility curves because for two reasons.

“Yeah. And honestly, it's been many more than 10 years since I read it, so I don't even remember all of the examples in the book, but as a mantra that was up there with utility curves because for two reasons.”
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast
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