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Dwarkesh Podcast / episode intelligence

Artificial meat is harder than artificial intelligence — Lewis Bollard

7 Aug 2025 26 published claims 2 attributable people

Speakers in the public record

Claim mix

belief 12evaluation 5observation 4prediction 2uncertainty 1recommendation 1preference 1

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Every row below preserves an exact excerpt. Identified speakers are linked; unresolved voices are labeled and excluded from people counts.

Claim ledger

The useful parts, with receipts.

26 published records

01 / belief

In that case, there was a new technology of immunocastration, an injection that achieved the same effects, and it was very easy to develop. I think there are a whole lot of other practices like that out there.

“In that case, there was a new technology of immunocastration, an injection that achieved the same effects, and it was very easy to develop. I think there are a whole lot of other practices like that out there.”
Speaker
Lewis Bollard
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

04 / uncertainty

To the extent that we hold consumption constant, and maybe we shouldn't, they would have to be suffering 4x as much as a chicken in the 1950s for it not to be a net improvement. I don't know if you disagree with that.

“To the extent that we hold consumption constant, and maybe we shouldn't, they would have to be suffering 4x as much as a chicken in the 1950s for it not to be a net improvement. I don't know if you disagree with that.”
Speaker
Dwarkesh Patel
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

07 / belief

I think what happened is that when people started learning about this issue initially, it was just a few people and they felt totally powerless to achieve larger-scale change.

“I think what happened is that when people started learning about this issue initially, it was just a few people and they felt totally powerless to achieve larger-scale change.”
Speaker
Lewis Bollard
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

08 / belief

I wish instead that politicians were actually just responsive to what the voters want. But given this is how the system works, I think that what people need to do is to bind together with a couple of other friends who care about this issue, max out on your donations to a politician, and then meet with the politician and say, "I really care about this and I'm watching what you do on this issue.

“I wish instead that politicians were actually just responsive to what the voters want. But given this is how the system works, I think that what people need to do is to bind together with a couple of other friends who care about this issue, max out on your donations to a politician, and then meet with the politician and say, "I really care about this and I'm watching what you do on this issue.”
Speaker
Lewis Bollard
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

10 / belief

What I would say on genetics is that what feels way more achievable to me in the near term is to get rid of the genetic physical problems that ail these animals.

“What I would say on genetics is that what feels way more achievable to me in the near term is to get rid of the genetic physical problems that ail these animals.”
Speaker
Lewis Bollard
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

13 / observation

The reason why that’s so shocking…On its face it's shocking. But in other areas where you're trying to do global health or something, first, the problem is improving on its own.

“The reason why that’s so shocking…On its face it's shocking. But in other areas where you're trying to do global health or something, first, the problem is improving on its own.”
Speaker
Dwarkesh Patel
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

17 / evaluation

The rest of the production process is incredibly cheap because they've removed everything that costs money, treating animals well and providing comfort and all that stuff.

“The rest of the production process is incredibly cheap because they've removed everything that costs money, treating animals well and providing comfort and all that stuff.”
Speaker
Lewis Bollard
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

19 / evaluation

In Germany, this happened because there are very talented advocates who harnessed that public opinion and concern to drive corporate reforms to the retailers and to drive government policy reforms.

“In Germany, this happened because there are very talented advocates who harnessed that public opinion and concern to drive corporate reforms to the retailers and to drive government policy reforms.”
Speaker
Lewis Bollard
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

20 / prediction

I think people will be aware that there's a general problem here, but the actual politics, the actual economics, the actual state of the technology landscape here… there might be interventions which are stupendously effective, which we overlook just because people are not aware of what's actually happening in this space.

“I think people will be aware that there's a general problem here, but the actual politics, the actual economics, the actual state of the technology landscape here… there might be interventions which are stupendously effective, which we overlook just because people are not aware of what's actually happening in this space.”
Speaker
Dwarkesh Patel
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

21 / evaluation

What they do is they give the breeding birds about 30% of the feed that the birds would eat on their own. They're starving them 70%, because that is the only way to stop these birds from completely collapsing under the genetics that they've inflicted on them.

“What they do is they give the breeding birds about 30% of the feed that the birds would eat on their own. They're starving them 70%, because that is the only way to stop these birds from completely collapsing under the genetics that they've inflicted on them.”
Speaker
Lewis Bollard
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

23 / recommendation

I think we made a mistake as a movement making this about personal diet. It's great when folks want to make a personal diet decision, whether that is eating less meat or meat from more humane sources, but the focus should not be on the individual.

“I think we made a mistake as a movement making this about personal diet. It's great when folks want to make a personal diet decision, whether that is eating less meat or meat from more humane sources, but the focus should not be on the individual.”
Speaker
Lewis Bollard
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

25 / evaluation

Because consumption has gone up so dramatically, and the suffering per bird has gone up so dramatically, that has outweighed the benefits of these birds being bigger.

“Because consumption has gone up so dramatically, and the suffering per bird has gone up so dramatically, that has outweighed the benefits of these birds being bigger.”
Speaker
Lewis Bollard
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast
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