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Lenny's Podcast / episode intelligence

Founder-led sales | Pete Kazanjy (Founding Sales, Atrium)

15 Dec 2022 17 published claims 3 attributable people

Speakers in the public record

Claim mix

recommendation 7belief 2observation 2evaluation 2uncertainty 1prediction 1preference 1commitment 1

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The useful parts, with receipts.

17 published records

01 / recommendation

Recommends The Goal. Recommends The Score Takes Care of Itself.

“The books that I recommend the most, there would be The Goal by Eli Goldratt. There are two books that inspired Atrium, one is the Goal, which is essentially is a novelization of the Toyota lean manufacturing system, so it's a process engineering book written as a novel, it's really fantastic. Sales organizations are just revenue factories, so if you want to think about systems thinking and processes, but in a way that's not a textbook, it's absolutely fantastic. And then the other one is a book by Bill Walsh called The Score Takes Care of itself. Bill Walsh is a really famous football coach for the Stanford Cardinals and the San Francisco 49ers and he just broke down how you can't worry about the score in the football game, you can only worry about the things that are in front of you, that you can control, and that if you do a high quantity of high-quality actions, whatever your position is, as a quarterback or a linebacker running back or whatever, then the score will take care of itself. That's very applicable to sales, as well, if you focus on those leading indicators and make sure that you're doing it in a high quantity of high quality way, then the score will take care of itself. So, those are two great books I like to recommend to folks.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

05 / observation

" Now, if they're not getting to second or third meetings, but they are getting those first meetings, well, now you know you've got a different problem, which they're getting those first dates, but they're not getting a second date and they're not getting a second date the same way that you were, maybe that's a coaching issue or maybe it's just a behavioral problem that's that you're not going to be able to surmount. But the point is having instrumentation on the most leading indicator possible gives you eyes onto whether or not things are working or not and you can make judgements fast, because the worst possible situation is nine months in, you're like, "Man, it's not working.

“" Now, if they're not getting to second or third meetings, but they are getting those first meetings, well, now you know you've got a different problem, which they're getting those first dates, but they're not getting a second date and they're not getting a second date the same way that you were, maybe that's a coaching issue or maybe it's just a behavioral problem that's that you're not going to be able to surmount. But the point is having instrumentation on the most leading indicator possible gives you eyes onto whether or not things are working or not and you can make judgements fast, because the worst possible situation is nine months in, you're like, "Man, it's not working.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

06 / uncertainty

Ideal customer profile is understanding what those parameters look like for looking at an organization in order to say, "Man, that's an awesome op, let's go get in front of them," versus, "Eh, I don't know if that's a very good opportunity, maybe let's pass on that," and then the personas are, "Great, that's an awesome op right there.

“Ideal customer profile is understanding what those parameters look like for looking at an organization in order to say, "Man, that's an awesome op, let's go get in front of them," versus, "Eh, I don't know if that's a very good opportunity, maybe let's pass on that," and then the personas are, "Great, that's an awesome op right there.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

07 / observation

Oh, I just think that there's a little bit of a mindset change. It's a little bit related to some of the reasons why founders and other folks maybe have this perception of sales be like, "Ew, sales, ugh" because people, their only experience with sales is Glengarry Glen Ross or movies with a sleazy used car salesman and stuff like that, whereas the way to think about what sellers are is they're the microeconomic agents in the market that bring supply to demand rather than waiting for demand to find supply.

“Oh, I just think that there's a little bit of a mindset change. It's a little bit related to some of the reasons why founders and other folks maybe have this perception of sales be like, "Ew, sales, ugh" because people, their only experience with sales is Glengarry Glen Ross or movies with a sleazy used car salesman and stuff like that, whereas the way to think about what sellers are is they're the microeconomic agents in the market that bring supply to demand rather than waiting for demand to find supply.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

08 / recommendation

Greenhouse just has a phenomenal sales organization, their sales leadership is absolutely fantastic, the gentleman who's the CRO over there is a good friend of mine, Sean Murray. But early-stage selling takes early-stage sellers or people who have been there, because you're not going to have all the collateral, slides and scripts and whatever aren't going to be all buttoned up and with a bow around them, and so looking for those early-stage, grimier, grittier sellers is a more effective way of going about that.

“Greenhouse just has a phenomenal sales organization, their sales leadership is absolutely fantastic, the gentleman who's the CRO over there is a good friend of mine, Sean Murray. But early-stage selling takes early-stage sellers or people who have been there, because you're not going to have all the collateral, slides and scripts and whatever aren't going to be all buttoned up and with a bow around them, and so looking for those early-stage, grimier, grittier sellers is a more effective way of going about that.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

09 / recommendation

There's this really great article on Lenny's newsletter on adding a sales organization to a self-serve product that Lenny had me write and then he edited the heck out of it, and it's really a fantastic asset. But what I would say there is that there are a lot of PLG or self-serve motions out there that they've stagnated themselves because they didn't add the sales piece to it.

“There's this really great article on Lenny's newsletter on adding a sales organization to a self-serve product that Lenny had me write and then he edited the heck out of it, and it's really a fantastic asset. But what I would say there is that there are a lot of PLG or self-serve motions out there that they've stagnated themselves because they didn't add the sales piece to it.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

10 / recommendation

It's incredible to see how our customers like Square, Spotify, and Zora are able to grow their businesses on top of Flatfile. It's because flawless data onboarding acts like a catalyst to get them and their customers where they need to go faster.

“It's incredible to see how our customers like Square, Spotify, and Zora are able to grow their businesses on top of Flatfile. It's because flawless data onboarding acts like a catalyst to get them and their customers where they need to go faster.”
Speaker
Ashley Mulligan
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

11 / evaluation

Because if you're only looking at lagging indicators, again, it's probably a it's a funnel on a new feature, so the opportunity is an at-bat or a potential transaction, and so usually what you do is you model out the stages in your opportunity.

“Because if you're only looking at lagging indicators, again, it's probably a it's a funnel on a new feature, so the opportunity is an at-bat or a potential transaction, and so usually what you do is you model out the stages in your opportunity.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

12 / prediction

I think developer tools can oftentimes do this, where because developers are pretty technical, they can adopt product, they don't need handholding in order to adopt a product that is complicated enough to be valuable.

“I think developer tools can oftentimes do this, where because developers are pretty technical, they can adopt product, they don't need handholding in order to adopt a product that is complicated enough to be valuable.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

14 / commitment

I'm probably the expert in sales analytics in the world, and so back in 2016 and 2017 when we were doing this, put aside the fact that I already know how to do minimum viable selling, if I had tried to get somebody else expert at that in order for them to go out and do that in the market, that would have been not good. This is why Steve Blank always talks about startups can't get to scale without firing their first VP of sales, it's oftentimes because they skip that step, and so the founder's like, "Hey, man, I'm going to pour a little bit of sales on this, hire some sales leader or whatever, some sort of seller, and outsource this.

“I'm probably the expert in sales analytics in the world, and so back in 2016 and 2017 when we were doing this, put aside the fact that I already know how to do minimum viable selling, if I had tried to get somebody else expert at that in order for them to go out and do that in the market, that would have been not good. This is why Steve Blank always talks about startups can't get to scale without firing their first VP of sales, it's oftentimes because they skip that step, and so the founder's like, "Hey, man, I'm going to pour a little bit of sales on this, hire some sales leader or whatever, some sort of seller, and outsource this.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

15 / evaluation

The way that I think about the book, Founding Sales, I like to think of it as the sequel to Eric Eric Ries's The Lean Startup or Steve Blank's Four Steps to the Epiphany or Startup Owner's Manual or whatever, where if you think about the stages, and this is all B2B, if you think about the stages that a product goes through, it's one, you've got to know what problem you're solving and validate that, and it's got to be real.

“The way that I think about the book, Founding Sales, I like to think of it as the sequel to Eric Eric Ries's The Lean Startup or Steve Blank's Four Steps to the Epiphany or Startup Owner's Manual or whatever, where if you think about the stages, and this is all B2B, if you think about the stages that a product goes through, it's one, you've got to know what problem you're solving and validate that, and it's got to be real.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

16 / recommendation

Again, I think your audience might appreciate this, the way to think of a sales motion, so sales motion is a fancy-pants way of describing just all the things that you do in order to take a prospect and bring them through the sales process and then eventually close them.

“Again, I think your audience might appreciate this, the way to think of a sales motion, so sales motion is a fancy-pants way of describing just all the things that you do in order to take a prospect and bring them through the sales process and then eventually close them.”
Speaker
Pete Kazanjy
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast
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