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Machine Learning Street Talk / episode intelligence

Making deep learning perform real algorithms with Category Theory (Andrew Dudzik, Petar Velichkovich, Taco Cohen, Bruno Gavranović, Paul Lessard)

22 Dec 2025 15 published claims 6 attributable people

Speakers in the public record

Claim mix

evaluation 6belief 2observation 2recommendation 1preference 1disagreement 1commitment 1prediction 1

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The useful parts, with receipts.

15 published records

01 / recommendation

Just because we can achieve some level of moving the needle by hooking up a really potent tool to a language model doesn't mean that we shouldn't think about what would the next generation of these models look like and how can we make them intrinsically better.

“Just because we can achieve some level of moving the needle by hooking up a really potent tool to a language model doesn't mean that we shouldn't think about what would the next generation of these models look like and how can we make them intrinsically better.”
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

02 / evaluation

We are working in this high dimensional space, which is not necessarily easily interpretable or composable because you have no easy way of saying, for example, in in theoretical computer science, if you want to compose 2 algorithms, you're working with them in a very abstract space, which means that, you know, you can easily reason about stitching the output of 1 to the input of another, whereas you cannot make that easy of a claim about latent spaces of 2 neural networks.

“We are working in this high dimensional space, which is not necessarily easily interpretable or composable because you have no easy way of saying, for example, in in theoretical computer science, if you want to compose 2 algorithms, you're working with them in a very abstract space, which means that, you know, you can easily reason about stitching the output of 1 to the input of another, whereas you cannot make that easy of a claim about latent spaces of 2 neural networks.”
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

03 / belief

Absolutely. So if we think about a parametric morphism as as so it's a map from a to b with a parameter b, we can off we often want to change the parameter space.

“Absolutely. So if we think about a parametric morphism as as so it's a map from a to b with a parameter b, we can off we often want to change the parameter space.”
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

04 / belief

There is a school of thought that our brain works in this way. So we think using, like, the the the symbols and these categories and so on, And then there's and then there's the notion of the universe is a certain way, and we understand the universe with that kind of interface.

“There is a school of thought that our brain works in this way. So we think using, like, the the the symbols and these categories and so on, And then there's and then there's the notion of the universe is a certain way, and we understand the universe with that kind of interface.”
Speaker
Tim Scarfe
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

05 / observation

The point is I only abstract what are the principles by which I can make inference on lines and their relationships to each other.

“The point is I only abstract what are the principles by which I can make inference on lines and their relationships to each other.”
Speaker
Paul Lessard
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

06 / observation

So if you ask chat GPT, what is a bunch of eights plus a bunch of ones with a 2 at the end? It will get the correct answer because it will recognize the trick.

“So if you ask chat GPT, what is a bunch of eights plus a bunch of ones with a 2 at the end? It will get the correct answer because it will recognize the trick.”
Speaker
Andrew Dudzik
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

07 / evaluation

I need sort of this little mechanism that when it when the wheel goes from 9 to 0, it turns the next wheel by 1. And this is very simple but it's extremely at odds with the way that GNNs have been conceived of in the past because in the past you generally, send the whole state but there's no information in the state.

“I need sort of this little mechanism that when it when the wheel goes from 9 to 0, it turns the next wheel by 1. And this is very simple but it's extremely at odds with the way that GNNs have been conceived of in the past because in the past you generally, send the whole state but there's no information in the state.”
Speaker
Andrew Dudzik
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

08 / evaluation

If I have a way of packing things in from a tuple into a bunch of lists, then I can pack those lists into other tuples of lists. But it's clear that this is first of all many sorted and then also differs from the group case because all of this is highly non invertible.

“If I have a way of packing things in from a tuple into a bunch of lists, then I can pack those lists into other tuples of lists. But it's clear that this is first of all many sorted and then also differs from the group case because all of this is highly non invertible.”
Speaker
Andrew Dudzik
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

09 / preference

Because if you have 2 things and you want to study their behavior as a composite, well, you can either study their behavior individually and look at the joint behavior, or you can compose the systems and look at the behavior of the composite.

“Because if you have 2 things and you want to study their behavior as a composite, well, you can either study their behavior individually and look at the joint behavior, or you can compose the systems and look at the behavior of the composite.”
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

11 / evaluation

In my PhD, I worked a lot on building, knowledge about symmetries into neural networks. And I think, for for many problems, you know, knowledge about symmetries is something that, first of all, gives you a lot of bang for the buck.

“In my PhD, I worked a lot on building, knowledge about symmetries into neural networks. And I think, for for many problems, you know, knowledge about symmetries is something that, first of all, gives you a lot of bang for the buck.”
Speaker
Taco Cohen
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

12 / disagreement

Things like intentionality and planning and system 2 and reasoning and stuff like that, I think you're placing the assumption that there's something standard about that.

“Things like intentionality and planning and system 2 and reasoning and stuff like that, I think you're placing the assumption that there's something standard about that.”
Speaker
Tim Scarfe
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

13 / commitment

I I I looked at it the wrong way. So I don't know what where this could go, but we are certainly striving to make things as compositional as as they could be.

“I I I looked at it the wrong way. So I don't know what where this could go, but we are certainly striving to make things as compositional as as they could be.”
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

14 / evaluation

When you think about all of the big scientific advances that were done with large language models, for example, up to this date, I would argue most of the ones I'm personally familiar with are a result of a careful combination of a large language model and an algorithmic procedure in the background, which actually makes sure to give it robustness properties.

“When you think about all of the big scientific advances that were done with large language models, for example, up to this date, I would argue most of the ones I'm personally familiar with are a result of a careful combination of a large language model and an algorithmic procedure in the background, which actually makes sure to give it robustness properties.”
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk

15 / prediction

As you can see, if you ask me to multiply 2 numbers that are, like, 50 digits long, I will definitely make some failures if you ask me to do that. But, you know, the point is that, like, what I would like is that, a system understands the amount of effort that needs to go into doing some kind of computation and maybe at least to give me some either an estimate of how likely it is to make mistakes or some notion even some notion of, I'm sorry.

“As you can see, if you ask me to multiply 2 numbers that are, like, 50 digits long, I will definitely make some failures if you ask me to do that. But, you know, the point is that, like, what I would like is that, a system understands the amount of effort that needs to go into doing some kind of computation and maybe at least to give me some either an estimate of how likely it is to make mistakes or some notion even some notion of, I'm sorry.”
Publisher
Machine Learning Street Talk
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