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Doing it the Hard Way: Making the AI engine and language πŸ”₯ of the future β€” with Chris Lattner of Modular

14 Sept 2023 21 published claims 3 attributable people

Speakers in the public record

Claim mix

evaluation 9belief 6recommendation 3uncertainty 2prediction 1

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Every row below preserves an exact excerpt. Identified speakers are linked; unresolved voices are labeled and excluded from people counts.

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The useful parts, with receipts.

21 published records

01 / evaluation

You hear about people writing CUDA kernels, for example. And I mean, the people who do this are amazing and I love them, but there's very few of them and the skill sets required to do that are just very different than innovating in model architecture, right?

β€œYou hear about people writing CUDA kernels, for example. And I mean, the people who do this are amazing and I love them, but there's very few of them and the skill sets required to do that are just very different than innovating in model architecture, right?”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

02 / evaluation

So I think the easiest thing for people to grasp so far has been Mojo, which is a superset of Python. And I think everybody talks about that because it's easier to grasp, but Modular's goal is to build a unified AI engine.

β€œSo I think the easiest thing for people to grasp so far has been Mojo, which is a superset of Python. And I think everybody talks about that because it's easier to grasp, but Modular's goal is to build a unified AI engine.”
Speaker
Alessio Fanelli
Publisher
Latent Space

04 / belief

You use very precise terms, AI engine, AI framework, AI compiler. And I think that means special things for you, especially within the modular context.

β€œYou use very precise terms, AI engine, AI framework, AI compiler. And I think that means special things for you, especially within the modular context.”
Speaker
Shawn Wang
Publisher
Latent Space

05 / uncertainty

I mean, I've had that website for, since, I don't know, the mid-90s. So it's been a very, very, very long time, and I originally had a big personal page.

β€œI mean, I've had that website for, since, I don't know, the mid-90s. So it's been a very, very, very long time, and I originally had a big personal page.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

06 / uncertainty

I don't know that I have one set of principles that I, you know, it's like one, one club that I go around and beat things with.

β€œI don't know that I have one set of principles that I, you know, it's like one, one club that I go around and beat things with.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

08 / belief

A lot of people don't want to do the management themselves, but we're really focused on meet people where they are, right? And we believe that our tech gets adopted faster if it's easy to adopt and easy to use and saying, okay, first move all your stuff to our cloud.

β€œA lot of people don't want to do the management themselves, but we're really focused on meet people where they are, right? And we believe that our tech gets adopted faster if it's easy to adopt and easy to use and saying, okay, first move all your stuff to our cloud.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

10 / belief

Every single language designer I've ever talked to has emphasized a playground and I was browsing your site and I realized that you had called the Xcode and Swift playgrounds a personal passion and you were inspired by Brett Victor.

β€œEvery single language designer I've ever talked to has emphasized a playground and I was browsing your site and I realized that you had called the Xcode and Swift playgrounds a personal passion and you were inspired by Brett Victor.”
Speaker
Shawn Wang
Publisher
Latent Space

11 / belief

You created Swift as well in 2010. And then in 2012, won the ACM Software System Award for LLVM, which I think is a crowning accomplishment for a lot of things.

β€œYou created Swift as well in 2010. And then in 2012, won the ACM Software System Award for LLVM, which I think is a crowning accomplishment for a lot of things.”
Speaker
Shawn Wang
Publisher
Latent Space

12 / evaluation

Get some crazy Python stack trace out of some tool because it covered the special case and now you're off that happy path, right? And so that compassion for users is something I think that, largely because AI infrastructure is so immature, but it's never been really part of the ethos of the people building tools.

β€œGet some crazy Python stack trace out of some tool because it covered the special case and now you're off that happy path, right? And so that compassion for users is something I think that, largely because AI infrastructure is so immature, but it's never been really part of the ethos of the people building tools.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

13 / recommendation

All of these things are always running all the time and they're communicating with each other. And so starting from an asynchronous programming model means that you can get accelerators that send messages to each other because that's the natural form of the hardware.

β€œAll of these things are always running all the time and they're communicating with each other. And so starting from an asynchronous programming model means that you can get accelerators that send messages to each other because that's the natural form of the hardware.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

14 / recommendation

I'll share with you is that starting from CPU, starting from the general thing that you then specialize leads to these design points, for example, in Mojo, where you say, okay, well, if I care about high performance data loading, that needs to be super parallel.

β€œI'll share with you is that starting from CPU, starting from the general thing that you then specialize leads to these design points, for example, in Mojo, where you say, okay, well, if I care about high performance data loading, that needs to be super parallel.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

15 / evaluation

That's a completely different universe, right? And so what ends up happening with the teams we work with is that they're often quite sophisticated and they've evolved lots of different messy systems for different special cases and it's killing them, right?

β€œThat's a completely different universe, right? And so what ends up happening with the teams we work with is that they're often quite sophisticated and they've evolved lots of different messy systems for different special cases and it's killing them, right?”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

16 / evaluation

I think in one of your previous podcasts, you mentioned leaving people behind, you know, that are like not experts in certain things and they can't contribute.

β€œI think in one of your previous podcasts, you mentioned leaving people behind, you know, that are like not experts in certain things and they can't contribute.”
Speaker
Alessio Fanelli
Publisher
Latent Space

17 / evaluation

And a lot of the systems, again, when you say, let's bring up software for the accelerator, what you end up doing is you say, okay, well, what can the accelerator do? It turns out it's a subset of the problem because they decided that the matrix multiplications or whatever they thought was important is the important part of the problem.

β€œAnd a lot of the systems, again, when you say, let's bring up software for the accelerator, what you end up doing is you say, okay, well, what can the accelerator do? It turns out it's a subset of the problem because they decided that the matrix multiplications or whatever they thought was important is the important part of the problem.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

18 / evaluation

But if you want better performance, you can reach for static typing, right? And so a lot of, I think what Mojo is, is it's progressive in terms of like, get out of arguing about stupid things that don't matter.

β€œBut if you want better performance, you can reach for static typing, right? And so a lot of, I think what Mojo is, is it's progressive in terms of like, get out of arguing about stupid things that don't matter.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

19 / evaluation

Once you have gotten things out of for loops and semicolons and, you know, out of the muck and into something that's more declarative, well, now you can do things where you transform the compute. This is something that I think that many people don't yet realize because it's kind of possible, but it's really such a pain with these existing systems is that, you know, a lot of the power of what this abstraction provides is the ability to do things like Pmap and Vmap, like where you're taking a computation and then transforming it.

β€œOnce you have gotten things out of for loops and semicolons and, you know, out of the muck and into something that's more declarative, well, now you can do things where you transform the compute. This is something that I think that many people don't yet realize because it's kind of possible, but it's really such a pain with these existing systems is that, you know, a lot of the power of what this abstraction provides is the ability to do things like Pmap and Vmap, like where you're taking a computation and then transforming it.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

20 / evaluation

They're working hard on this, but it's really hard to fix given the environment that they're in. And so because you've got the hardware side of things that's fragmenting software, you've got the framework side that is, you know, they're tied to the architecture that they started with and things evolved.

β€œThey're working hard on this, but it's really hard to fix given the environment that they're in. And so because you've got the hardware side of things that's fragmenting software, you've got the framework side that is, you know, they're tied to the architecture that they started with and things evolved.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space

21 / prediction

Second goal is that my opinion is that like, if you push a lot of complexity out of your head, you make room for new kinds of complexity.

β€œSecond goal is that my opinion is that like, if you push a lot of complexity out of your head, you make room for new kinds of complexity.”
Speaker
Chris Lattner
Publisher
Latent Space
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