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Scott Wu

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app / uses

Devin

“Our whole team is only like 15 engineers a year. We use a ton of Devin when we're building Devin.”

Lenny's Podcast · 4 May 2025

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What Scott said.

19 transcript-backed records

01 / prediction

Right. But I think that the big shift that we really felt we would see is moving from kind of this text to text model to an actual autonomous system that can make decisions, that can interact with the real world, that can take in feedback, that can iterate and take multiple steps to solve problems.

“Right. But I think that the big shift that we really felt we would see is moving from kind of this text to text model to an actual autonomous system that can make decisions, that can interact with the real world, that can take in feedback, that can iterate and take multiple steps to solve problems.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

02 / belief

I mean, I think I would say that the grounding question for us really, which is one that we think about all the time, is really just what is the future of software engineering and how should we be working with AI to write code? Because I think at the end of the day, of course that's what underlines all of the product decisions that we make, so.

“I mean, I think I would say that the grounding question for us really, which is one that we think about all the time, is really just what is the future of software engineering and how should we be working with AI to write code? Because I think at the end of the day, of course that's what underlines all of the product decisions that we make, so.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

03 / belief

I think on the interim, on every level in between, obviously it makes a difference the quality of software engineering. And I think one of the cool things with developers obviously is developers are really willing to learn new experiences and to put in effort if it means that they're able to have a higher and higher quality experience.

“I think on the interim, on every level in between, obviously it makes a difference the quality of software engineering. And I think one of the cool things with developers obviously is developers are really willing to learn new experiences and to put in effort if it means that they're able to have a higher and higher quality experience.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

04 / belief

We'd obviously love to hear any feedback you have about the Devin product, there's so much to figure out, and I think the, like I said, I think we're all still 20 steps away from really the future of software engineering, and so it really means a lot to hear what folks think about the product as they're trying it out.

“We'd obviously love to hear any feedback you have about the Devin product, there's so much to figure out, and I think the, like I said, I think we're all still 20 steps away from really the future of software engineering, and so it really means a lot to hear what folks think about the product as they're trying it out.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

06 / belief

Obviously we want to make sure Devin's got its own virtual machine set up to be able to do that. And similarly, I think the usage pattern, I think often it wasn't clear and obviously you can sit and just kind of watch Devin do it action by action and work that way, but we found that the best workflow really as a team building a lot of stuff was to work with multiple Devins and to run them asynchronously and to kick them off and to only jump in basically as you needed to provide feedback or steer the plan or anything like that.

“Obviously we want to make sure Devin's got its own virtual machine set up to be able to do that. And similarly, I think the usage pattern, I think often it wasn't clear and obviously you can sit and just kind of watch Devin do it action by action and work that way, but we found that the best workflow really as a team building a lot of stuff was to work with multiple Devins and to run them asynchronously and to kick them off and to only jump in basically as you needed to provide feedback or steer the plan or anything like that.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

08 / belief

I think folks come in and they see the blank page and they think of all sorts of various things that they want to try out. They think of lots, where I think typically the flow that we see that works best is obviously you can try demos and you can do things, but a lot of it is just like, "Yeah, let's figure out what tickets we want to get done today or this week and let's have Devin get started on those and let's start with the easier ones and then work with Devin and understand what things Devin needs to get set up to be able to test its own code and do this well.

“I think folks come in and they see the blank page and they think of all sorts of various things that they want to try out. They think of lots, where I think typically the flow that we see that works best is obviously you can try demos and you can do things, but a lot of it is just like, "Yeah, let's figure out what tickets we want to get done today or this week and let's have Devin get started on those and let's start with the easier ones and then work with Devin and understand what things Devin needs to get set up to be able to test its own code and do this well.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

11 / preference

Something I've thought about a lot lately as we've built this is, this is not my first company, actually for a lot of us, it's not our first company, I think of our 26 or 27 people total on the team, I think 18 of us have started our own company before this. And yeah, one of the things I think about is, there's actually your point about cliches I think really spoke to me as well, which is, there's the really common things which you hear all the time in startups, where you're like, you got to move fast, or you got to hire great people, it's like, okay, well, obviously you do, I wasn't planning on not hiring great people, I wasn't planning on going slow.

“Something I've thought about a lot lately as we've built this is, this is not my first company, actually for a lot of us, it's not our first company, I think of our 26 or 27 people total on the team, I think 18 of us have started our own company before this. And yeah, one of the things I think about is, there's actually your point about cliches I think really spoke to me as well, which is, there's the really common things which you hear all the time in startups, where you're like, you got to move fast, or you got to hire great people, it's like, okay, well, obviously you do, I wasn't planning on not hiring great people, I wasn't planning on going slow.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

12 / evaluation

I mean, there's so much detail and idiosyncrasy to the work that we all do obviously day to day. And a lot of it is kind of like teaching the model to mirror the complexity of the real world, I would say, rather than getting it to some higher fundamental level of problem solving, which I think the foundation labs are doing a really great job.

“I mean, there's so much detail and idiosyncrasy to the work that we all do obviously day to day. And a lot of it is kind of like teaching the model to mirror the complexity of the real world, I would say, rather than getting it to some higher fundamental level of problem solving, which I think the foundation labs are doing a really great job.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

13 / recommendation

I'm taking calls on a walk and I'm using AirPods, obviously I'm doing work at my computer, at my desk, I'm plugged into AirPods, and it works quite well, honestly, for a lot of different situations, and they're very comfortable, they're very consistent.

“I'm taking calls on a walk and I'm using AirPods, obviously I'm doing work at my computer, at my desk, I'm plugged into AirPods, and it works quite well, honestly, for a lot of different situations, and they're very comfortable, they're very consistent.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

15 / prediction

I think AI is going to be the biggest technology shift of our lives, but I think one thing, which is what we were just talking about before this, which is most of the big tech revolutions that we've had over the last 50 years, I mean, I'm thinking about personal computer and the internet and the mobile phone and stuff, they all had this big hardware component that was a big part of the distribution.

“I think AI is going to be the biggest technology shift of our lives, but I think one thing, which is what we were just talking about before this, which is most of the big tech revolutions that we've had over the last 50 years, I mean, I'm thinking about personal computer and the internet and the mobile phone and stuff, they all had this big hardware component that was a big part of the distribution.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

16 / evaluation

I think what does exist is stickiness, which I would kind of define as once you have a product experience that you really like, are you excited to keep using that experience or is there an effect where it is just as easy from now on to just switch on to a new one and learn a new one and so on.

“I think what does exist is stickiness, which I would kind of define as once you have a product experience that you really like, are you excited to keep using that experience or is there an effect where it is just as easy from now on to just switch on to a new one and learn a new one and so on.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

17 / prediction

You can think about this with money, you can think about this with time or resources, but the direct version here is, I think, as it becomes easier and easier to program and as programming becomes more and more effective, I think we're going to have a lot more programmers.

“You can think about this with money, you can think about this with time or resources, but the direct version here is, I think, as it becomes easier and easier to program and as programming becomes more and more effective, I think we're going to have a lot more programmers.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

18 / prediction

I think we're going to shift more and more towards this agentic workflow, because that's in some ways the way to really get to that 200%, 500%, 1000% gains that we'll be getting to with software engineering over the next few years.

“I think we're going to shift more and more towards this agentic workflow, because that's in some ways the way to really get to that 200%, 500%, 1000% gains that we'll be getting to with software engineering over the next few years.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

19 / recommendation

I mean, we have far more programmers, obviously, than we ever have before because of that, but I would say certainly as you're building your skills as an engineer, it really helps a lot to understand the abstractions and to be able to peel the layers beneath.

“I mean, we have far more programmers, obviously, than we ever have before because of that, but I would say certainly as you're building your skills as an engineer, it really helps a lot to understand the abstractions and to be able to peel the layers beneath.”
Speaker
Scott Wu
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast
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