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28 Oct 2025

I don’t know what the numbers are now, but the per capita rate of murder of police when I was working on this stuff 15 years ago was considerably lower than a 25-year-old Black man in a ghetto who was not a police officer.

“I don’t know what the numbers are now, but the per capita rate of murder of police when I was working on this stuff 15 years ago was considerably lower than a 25-year-old Black man in a ghetto who was not a police officer.”

Speaker: Jonny Steinberg
Episode: Jonny Steinberg on South African Crime and Punishment, the Mandelas' Marriage, and the Post-Apartheid Era
Publisher: Conversations with Tyler

What Jonny said.

I don’t know what the numbers are now, but the per capita rate of murder of police when I was working on this stuff 15 years ago was considerably lower than a 25-year-old Black man in a ghetto who was not a police officer.