Evidence receipt / evaluation
Published · transcript-backedMark Zuckerberg: evaluation
29 Apr 2025 Dwarkesh Podcast Mark Zuckerberg — AI will write most Meta code in 18 months
“AI is interesting because, more than some of the other stuff that we do, it is more research and model-led than really product-led.”
Source trail
Everything needed to verify it.
- Speaker
- Mark Zuckerberg
- Attribution
- Verified speaker
- Claim type
- evaluation
- Recorded
- 29 Apr 2025
- Publisher
- Dwarkesh Podcast
Transcript context
…How do you keep track of all these different projects, some of which we've talked about today. I'm sure there are many I don't even know about. As the CEO overseeing everything, there's a big spectrum between going to the Llama team and saying, "Here are the hyperparameters you should use," versus just giving a mandate like, "Go make the AI better." And there are so many different projects. How do you think about the way in which you can best deliver your value-add and oversee all these things? A lot of what I spend my time on is trying to get awesome people onto the teams. There's that, and then there's stuff that cuts across teams. You build Meta AI, and you want to get it into WhatsApp or Instagram. Okay, now I need to get those teams to talk together. Then there are a bunch of questions like, “do you want the thread for Meta AI in WhatsApp to feel like other WhatsApp threads, or do you want it to feel like other AI chat experiences?” There are different idioms for those. So there are all these interesting questions that need to get answered around how does this stuff basically fit into everything we're doing? Then there's a whole other part of what we're doing, which is pushing on the infrastructure. If you want to stand up a gigawatt cluster, first of all, that has a lot of implications for the way we're doing infrastructure buildouts. It has political implications for how you engage with the different states where you're building that stuff. It has financial implications for the company in terms of: "All right, there's a lot of economic uncertainty in the world. Do we double down on infrastructure right now? If so, what other trade-offs do we want to make around the company?" Those are the kinds of decisions that are tough for other people to really make. Then there's this question around taste and quality. When is something good enough that we want to ship it? In general, I'm the steward of that for the company. Although we have a lot of other people who I think have good taste as well and are also filters for different things. Those are basically the areas. AI is interesting because, more than some of the other stuff that we do, it is more research and model-led than really product-led. You can't just design the product that you want and then try to build the model to fit into it. You really need to design the model first and the capabilities that you want, and then you get some emergent properties. Then it's, "Oh, you can build some different stuff because this turned out in a certain way." At the end of the day, people want to use the best model. That's partially why, when we're talking about building the most personal AI, the best voice, the best personalization — and also a very smart experience with very low latency — those are the things that we need to design the whole system to build. That's why we're working on full-duplex voice. That's why we're working on personalization to both have good memory extraction from your interactions with AI, but also to be able to plug into all the other Meta systems. That's why we design the specific models that we design, to have the kind of size and latency parameters that they do. Speaking of politics, there's been this perception that some tech leaders have been aligning with Trump. You and others donated to his inaugural event and were on stage with him and I think you settled a lawsuit that resulted in them getting $25 million. I wonder what's going on here? Does it feel like the cost of doing business with an administration? What's the best way to think about this?…
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