Evidence receipt / belief
Published · transcript-backedBret Taylor: belief
31 Jul 2025 Lenny's Podcast He saved OpenAI, invented the “Like” button, and built Google Maps: Bret Taylor on the future of careers, coding, agents, and more
“I think a lot companies use that, which is great, that motion produces great products, but if PLG means that you aren't actually engaging with the buyer of your software, you're not going to grow. And so, I've actually seen more recently, with a lot of AI companies, direct sales come a little bit more back into fashion because I think so many of the opportunities in AI actually meet that qualification where the buyer and the user are not necessarily the same person and it really requires that go-to-market motion.”
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Everything needed to verify it.
- Speaker
- Bret Taylor
- Attribution
- Verified speaker
- Claim type
- belief
- Recorded
- 31 Jul 2025
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
Transcript context
…I think there's a small handful of go-to-market models that have been proven to work, and I think it's important to choose the right one for the product category you're going after. One category I would say is developer-led. This is somewhere famously Stripe and Twilio where probably two of the original that did this exceptionally. And essentially, the go-to-market motion there is to appeal to an individual engineer often within the department of the CTO who have accountability and a fair amount of latitude to choose a solution. This works if your product is a platform product. It doesn't work, for example, if your product is trying to help a line of business because lines of business typically don't have dedicated engineering teams or let alone, the latitude to just go download a new library or start using a web service like that. It particularly works well if you sell to startups just because startups tend to have engineering teams with quite a bit of latitude to choose services to help them solve the problem given by the founder. Then there's product-led growth. It's a broad term, obviously every company's product matters, but product-led growth more specifically means users can sign up from the website, often get put on a trial. Often you can buy a couple of seats with a credit card and those work where your user and your buyer are the same person. So it works for small business software almost always because sole proprietors do everything. And so you're selling small business software like Shopify in the early days and there's a lot of other products like that where you're trying to sell to small merchants. That's great. It doesn't work well when your buyer and the user of the software are different. So I'll use the example of something like expense reporting software. The user of that software is an individual employee, but the buyer is often a finance department. And so having sign up and buy with your credit card doesn't make sense because the person using is not the person with the credit card and it just doesn't work. And then there's direct sales. And direct sales had gone, I don't want to say out of fashion, but if I think of the best direct sales companies, probably there's a lot of lineage from Oracle, but you think SAP, Oracle, ServiceNow, Salesforce, Adobe perhaps, and there's others as well. And these were companies that sold into large lines of business in a relatively traditional sales motion. I think because product-led growth became very popular. I think a lot companies use that, which is great, that motion produces great products, but if PLG means that you aren't actually engaging with the buyer of your software, you're not going to grow. ar. I think a lot companies use that, which is great, that motion produces great products, but if PLG means that you aren't actually engaging with the buyer of your software, you're not going to grow. And so, I've actually seen more recently, with a lot of AI companies, direct sales come a little bit more back into fashion because I think so many of the opportunities in AI actually meet that qualification where the buyer and the user are not necessarily the same person and it really requires that go-to-market motion. Where I see entrepreneurs stumble is they'll choose a go-to-market motion without thinking through what is the process of purchasing this software? What is the process of evaluating the value of this software? And I think people just need to be much more first principles about it and much more thoughtful about it. And candidly, I think a lot of companies should leverage direct sales more than they do. And even though because of the sometimes justified reputation of the quality of products of some of these direct sales companies, it had gotten a bad name. And I think I'm thankful to see it coming back in a lot of the AI market. I feel like this message is something a lot of founders need to hear, especially founders that aren't from a business background that sales turns them off, they don't think they're going to be great at sales. Just this push of this might be what you have to get really good at and this is how you win and you can't just rely on product like growth.…
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