Nikhyl Singhal: evaluation

Transcript context

…Maybe I'll start with this. I think that when we first chatted, it was like in maybe the end of COVID, I think the ZIRP era, as we called it, zero interest free money from investors was just cresting. We talked about how ICs are now more in demand. We talked about how these first round of layoffs are existing, that X growth companies are going to be a struggle. But if you really talk to product leaders that were in that mode maybe three years ago, they weren't very happy. What I mean by that is their day was largely a day of moving information from one to another. Let me frame the way that my team is presenting the information to my boss so that that person can frame it to their boss's boss. Generally, the function had become extremely focused on responsibility without authority. That is the greatest form of workplace stress. Now, we don't talk about that. We talk about all the stresses that we have today. Boy, AI is going to replace our function, et cetera. But the honest truth is if you think back, if you've been in product for a handful of years, that was a tough time. Now, people were being paid well. Layoffs were just starting. The industry was huge. It's the biggest it's ever been. There were more product managers, more CPOs than ever had existed in history. What's changed is people are having fun again, particularly product folks, because they're able to build. They don't have to rely on as many people to have impact. There's much more of a direct connection to their ideas and their ability to test and connect their product instincts to their customers. In many ways, this is a complete renaissance for the product industry. For a lot of the strongest builders in the group that I'm associated with, compensation is an all time high. They have more offers than they've ever seen. They see their next job maybe being a founder, maybe being a CEO, maybe being in another function other than product, but being in the C level. They're feeling like there's more opportunities than ever before, so that's the good. I would say in all honesty, it comes with a lot of strings attached. I think that it starts with just being exhausted. I've never seen an industry that's more tired than they are now. I think we were tired during COVID, but for different reasons. Now, I think nothing's constant. Once you figure out how to do your job, in the past, you would be fine for a decade until you became a manager, and then you would be fine until you became an executive. Now, if you don't stay up in the next three months, they'll be like, "Oh, you're doing that thing? We stopped doing that three months ago. We don't do that anymore. Oh, PRDs, well, that's not even a... " Everything feels like everyone's in a state of alert. I think that in addition, now you're hearing tens of thousands of people are being shed by larger employers that are also hiring and paying triple wages. ing feels like everyone's in a state of alert. I think that in addition, now you're hearing tens of thousands of people are being shed by larger employers that are also hiring and paying triple wages. That's mind-boggling, but depending on your perspective, you might be on one side or the other. I think that particularly a lot of the mid-career people, people that are like, let's call it in their 30s, life plays this cruel trick on you where you end up having your best, most energetic years of your career, your power years of career, because you finally have figured out what you're doing. But at the same time, you may be settling down. You may have kids, your parents are aging, and you, for the first time, have those aches and pains in your body. You have to think about diet, you can't eat cookies every day, you have to exercise. Between your health, the family and friends that you hardly ever see, your parents, which are now worrying because you have to build a different relationship with them, they're becoming dependents, your actual dependence with your kids. Then, oh, by the way, your work, which will take whatever time you have, but it also changes all the time. That generation is insanely stressed historically. Now, we're like, "Hey, stay up. What's the latest in CloudCo? They changed it this morning." It's dizzying. I think there's joy, but there's fatigue in a way that I haven't quite seen before. Wow. What an incredible overview. This episode is brought to you by our season's presenting sponsor, WorkOS. What do OpenAI, Anthropic, Cursor, Vercel, Replit, Sierra, Clay, and hundreds of other winning companies all have in common? They are all powered by WorkOS. 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You talk to, I don't know, hundreds of product leaders regularly run these communities for CPOs and senior product leaders. I guess on balance, are people doing, would you say, better than two, three years ago, or is it just like, oh man, everyone's burning out and in big trouble?…

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