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Leopold Aschenbrenner: prediction

4 Jun 2024 Dwarkesh Podcast Leopold Aschenbrenner — 2027 AGI, China/US super-intelligence race, & the return of history

“Whether people will take it seriously… I have some faith normal mechanisms of a liberal society.”

— Leopold Aschenbrenner

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Speaker
Leopold Aschenbrenner
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
prediction
Recorded
4 Jun 2024
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

Transcript context

…In this world, why are we optimistic that the project is being run by the right people? Here's something to think about. OpenAI starts off with people who are very explicitly thinking about exactly these kinds of things. Yes but are they still there? They might not be. Here’s a few thoughts. First of all, the private world is extremely tough for alignment even if they nominally care. There’s a couple of reasons. You have the race between the commercial labs. You don't have any headroom there to be like, aAh, actually we're going to hold back for three months, get this right. We're going to dedicate 90% of our compute to automated alignment research instead of just pushing the next OOM." The other thing is that in the private world, China has stolen your weights. China has your secrets. They're right on your tails. You're in this fever struggle. There’s no room at all for maneuver. It's absolutely essential to get alignment right. To get it during this intelligence explosion, to get it right, you need to have that room to maneuver and you need to have that clear lead. Again, maybe you've made the deal or whatever, but you're in an incredibly tough spot if you don't have this clear lead. So the private world is kind of rough there. Whether people will take it seriously… I have some faith normal mechanisms of a liberal society. Wwe don't fully know yet if alignment is an issue. The science will develop. We're going to get better measurements of alignment. The case will be clear and obvious. I worry that there's worlds where evidence is ambiguous. A lot of the most scary intelligence explosion scenarios are worlds in which evidence is ambiguous. But again, if evidence is ambiguous, then those are the worlds in which you really want the safety margins. Those are also the worlds in which running the intelligence explosion is sort of like running a war. The evidence is ambiguous. You have to make these really tough trade-offs. You better have a really good chain of command for that where they’re not just YOLOing it. Let’s talk a little about Germany. We’re making the analogy to World War II. You made this. really interesting point many hours ago. Throughout history, World War Two is not unique at least when you think in proportion to the size of the population. Let’s look at these other sorts of catastrophes where a substantial proportion of the population has been killed off. After that, the nation recovers and they get back to their heights. What's interesting after World War Two is that Germany especially, and maybe Europe as a whole, they experienced vast economic growth in the immediate aftermath because of catch-up growth. We're not talking about Germany potentially launching an intelligence explosion and them getting a seat at the AI table. We were talking about Iran and North Korea and Russia. We didn't talk about Germany.…

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