01 / recommendation
Built The Challenger Customer.
“Yeah, we wrote a sequel to The Challenger Sale called The Challenger Customer. In that book, we talk about a case from a company called Dentsply.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
Lenny's Podcast / episode intelligence
The surprising truth about what closes deals: Insights from 2.5m sales conversations | Matt Dixon (author of The Challenger Sale and The JOLT Effect)
Speakers in the public record
Claim mix
evaluation 4recommendation 3observation 3belief 2prediction 1preference 1
Evidence policy
Every row below preserves an exact excerpt. Identified speakers are linked; unresolved voices are labeled and excluded from people counts.
Claim ledger
The useful parts, with receipts.
14 published records
02 / observation
The reason is that they're standing, holding that heavy wand being dragged down by that heavy cord at an awkward angle all day long.
“The reason is that they're standing, holding that heavy wand being dragged down by that heavy cord at an awkward angle all day long.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
03 / belief
I think that feeds into exactly what you're showing is it needs to be so much better that this fear is reduced.
“I think that feeds into exactly what you're showing is it needs to be so much better that this fear is reduced.”
- Speaker
- Lenny Rachitsky
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
04 / belief
Then, let's set up to over-deliver against that because I think we're going to do better than that based on what I know about your organization, easily 6, 7, 8, 9%, maybe even 10, but we don't want you to just walking in and promising 10X improvement sales productivity.
“Then, let's set up to over-deliver against that because I think we're going to do better than that based on what I know about your organization, easily 6, 7, 8, 9%, maybe even 10, but we don't want you to just walking in and promising 10X improvement sales productivity.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
05 / recommendation
The only thing I would suggest is that for anybody, I mean, I think just do it is this, is that you should hit the pause button when the customer, because the customers, we all know, are going to get cold feet, often late stage, and it can be very frustrating.
“The only thing I would suggest is that for anybody, I mean, I think just do it is this, is that you should hit the pause button when the customer, because the customers, we all know, are going to get cold feet, often late stage, and it can be very frustrating.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
06 / evaluation
Just to back up for a little bit, I think one of the data points I always start with when I present the research on The JOLT Effect is that our analysis showed that anywhere between 40 and 60% of the average salesperson's qualified pipelines, these aren't just leads, sometimes bad leads that are thrown over to us by marketing, these are qualified opportunities.
“Just to back up for a little bit, I think one of the data points I always start with when I present the research on The JOLT Effect is that our analysis showed that anywhere between 40 and 60% of the average salesperson's qualified pipelines, these aren't just leads, sometimes bad leads that are thrown over to us by marketing, these are qualified opportunities.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
07 / observation
They basically just dump the problem back on your lap. But what a great way people do is they say, "If you want my opinion, I love this dish and I'd probably say it's our most popular.
“They basically just dump the problem back on your lap. But what a great way people do is they say, "If you want my opinion, I love this dish and I'd probably say it's our most popular.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
08 / observation
We found that actually, there are a lot of deals that are lost because the customer does actually prefer their status quo.
“We found that actually, there are a lot of deals that are lost because the customer does actually prefer their status quo.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
09 / recommendation
I'll start with the J because it's first, but also I think the way, while it's kind of linear, I would encourage listeners don't think about this as a process where it's like I do step one, two, three, four, J-O-L-T.
“I'll start with the J because it's first, but also I think the way, while it's kind of linear, I would encourage listeners don't think about this as a process where it's like I do step one, two, three, four, J-O-L-T.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
10 / prediction
Those are all status quo preference reasons, but it turns out those are only 44% of the no decision losses, 56% of no decision losses are customers who want to buy but can't buy because they're stuck in this no man's land of indecision, and that indecision itself stems from their fear of failure, which you put your finger on earlier, and this is the part I found so fascinating, so we dug into the psych research.
“Those are all status quo preference reasons, but it turns out those are only 44% of the no decision losses, 56% of no decision losses are customers who want to buy but can't buy because they're stuck in this no man's land of indecision, and that indecision itself stems from their fear of failure, which you put your finger on earlier, and this is the part I found so fascinating, so we dug into the psych research.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
11 / preference
Here's an analogy, I'll often tell people to think about the last time they went to a fancy restaurant and they looked at a menu with some expensive entrees and everything looked delicious, but they didn't know what to order, so you asked the wait person what they recommend.
“Here's an analogy, I'll often tell people to think about the last time they went to a fancy restaurant and they looked at a menu with some expensive entrees and everything looked delicious, but they didn't know what to order, so you asked the wait person what they recommend.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
12 / evaluation
We encountered a ton of examples. It's so interesting you mentioned startups and I think sometimes, I was actually with a big enterprise software company and I think when, and I presented this research to some of their sales leaders and one of the folks in the room said, "I'm really glad we are who we are, that we are the 800-pound gorilla, especially in a market like we're in right now," because as the old adage goes, it wasn't IBM, but the old adage is that nobody ever got fired for buying from IBM, right?
“We encountered a ton of examples. It's so interesting you mentioned startups and I think sometimes, I was actually with a big enterprise software company and I think when, and I presented this research to some of their sales leaders and one of the folks in the room said, "I'm really glad we are who we are, that we are the 800-pound gorilla, especially in a market like we're in right now," because as the old adage goes, it wasn't IBM, but the old adage is that nobody ever got fired for buying from IBM, right?”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
13 / evaluation
What's so tough about this is that it's not just Dunning-Kruger like we think we're more decisive than we really are, even if your customer knows that they're indecisive or they're worried about failing or how their boss is going to perceive them, if this purchase doesn't pan out, they don't like talking about it because it's embarrassing.
“What's so tough about this is that it's not just Dunning-Kruger like we think we're more decisive than we really are, even if your customer knows that they're indecisive or they're worried about failing or how their boss is going to perceive them, if this purchase doesn't pan out, they don't like talking about it because it's embarrassing.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
14 / evaluation
They want to talk to more and more people. They're just in information overload mode and/or what we might call analysis paralysis mode because at some point, they're never satisfied with, they always feel like all the answers will be in the next white paper they read or the next reference call they do, or the next person on LinkedIn they talk to.
“They want to talk to more and more people. They're just in information overload mode and/or what we might call analysis paralysis mode because at some point, they're never satisfied with, they always feel like all the answers will be in the next white paper they read or the next reference call they do, or the next person on LinkedIn they talk to.”
- Speaker
- Matt Dixon
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast