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Lex Fridman Podcast / episode intelligence

#462 – Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson: Politics, Trump, AOC, Elon & DOGE

26 Mar 2025 34 published claims 1 attributable person

Speakers in the public record

Claim mix

belief 19evaluation 8preference 3prediction 2recommendation 1uncertainty 1

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The useful parts, with receipts.

34 published records

02 / evaluation

They lost in the US, they lost in Europe, they lost in pretty much every developed country at rates that we really haven’t seen in 50 years. And that’s largely because the inflation crisis that came after COVID created an absolute disaster for incumbent establishment power.

“They lost in the US, they lost in Europe, they lost in pretty much every developed country at rates that we really haven’t seen in 50 years. And that’s largely because the inflation crisis that came after COVID created an absolute disaster for incumbent establishment power.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

03 / evaluation

They’re more likely to say there’s a kind of natural inequality in the nature of the world and we’re not going to try to overcorrect forward with our policies. And so, I think that even at a layer above what Ezra was articulating with the policy differences between liberals and conservatives, there’s almost like an archetypal difference between what they fear, and value and tolerate.

“They’re more likely to say there’s a kind of natural inequality in the nature of the world and we’re not going to try to overcorrect forward with our policies. And so, I think that even at a layer above what Ezra was articulating with the policy differences between liberals and conservatives, there’s almost like an archetypal difference between what they fear, and value and tolerate.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

06 / belief

I also just want to say with the tariffs, he wanted to cut the tariffs off from DOGE and cut the tariffs off from this broader agenda. And one reason I don’t is that I think the way to understand tariffs… Look, you can be accomplishing many different things with tariffs.

“I also just want to say with the tariffs, he wanted to cut the tariffs off from DOGE and cut the tariffs off from this broader agenda. And one reason I don’t is that I think the way to understand tariffs… Look, you can be accomplishing many different things with tariffs.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

07 / belief

Let’s say two things on that. So one, we think there’s a real tension between equality, redistribution and constricting the supply of specifically housing.

“Let’s say two things on that. So one, we think there’s a real tension between equality, redistribution and constricting the supply of specifically housing.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

08 / belief

People want a lot from her personally, but they don’t want a sort of prosecutorial character. So, she sort of abandons that and never I think really finds another political identity, certainly before she begins running in 2024.

“People want a lot from her personally, but they don’t want a sort of prosecutorial character. So, she sort of abandons that and never I think really finds another political identity, certainly before she begins running in 2024.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

09 / belief

Now I think he’s going to, my gut on him is he’s going to hold his powder a little bit, so he’ll probably want to do the Lex Fridman podcast assuming he runs in 2028, in 2027.

“Now I think he’s going to, my gut on him is he’s going to hold his powder a little bit, so he’ll probably want to do the Lex Fridman podcast assuming he runs in 2028, in 2027.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

10 / belief

I think sometimes you describe… One of the difficulties Trump poses is sometimes if you just describe what he’s doing, I think quite neutrally, people say, “Oh, you’re criticizing him, you’re anti-Trump.

“I think sometimes you describe… One of the difficulties Trump poses is sometimes if you just describe what he’s doing, I think quite neutrally, people say, “Oh, you’re criticizing him, you’re anti-Trump.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

11 / belief

We want to use markets for lots of progressive ends, but the neoliberal order basically collapses amidst a financial crisis and climate change and China. And those are the three things that grow a little, but also separately we think kill it, which is the neoliberal order does not have an answer to the financial crisis, and it botches in many ways.

“We want to use markets for lots of progressive ends, but the neoliberal order basically collapses amidst a financial crisis and climate change and China. And those are the three things that grow a little, but also separately we think kill it, which is the neoliberal order does not have an answer to the financial crisis, and it botches in many ways.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

12 / belief

I think in this case, given that it’s about corruption, it wasn’t. But the idea, Trump’s idea that the problem is that the president doesn’t wield enough power here the way he does in Russia, the way he might in India, the way he might in China.

“I think in this case, given that it’s about corruption, it wasn’t. But the idea, Trump’s idea that the problem is that the president doesn’t wield enough power here the way he does in Russia, the way he might in India, the way he might in China.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

13 / belief

One of the things that I think is important to say about Trump is that the difference between Trump and, say, Biden or Trump and Obama is not that Trump will negotiate with Putin and Obama wouldn’t.

“One of the things that I think is important to say about Trump is that the difference between Trump and, say, Biden or Trump and Obama is not that Trump will negotiate with Putin and Obama wouldn’t.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

15 / belief

Defense grew, all sorts of programs grew. So, I think that one thing we’re sort of scrambling around in our answers is that at a really high level, there are differences between liberalism and conservatism in American history.

“Defense grew, all sorts of programs grew. So, I think that one thing we’re sort of scrambling around in our answers is that at a really high level, there are differences between liberalism and conservatism in American history.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

17 / belief

I think that when you talk, I mean they are scheduled by schedulers. If you talk to them yourself, if you end up having a personal relationship with Wes Moore of Maryland and he wants to do your show, he will tell his scheduler, “I want three to four hours to do the show.

“I think that when you talk, I mean they are scheduled by schedulers. If you talk to them yourself, if you end up having a personal relationship with Wes Moore of Maryland and he wants to do your show, he will tell his scheduler, “I want three to four hours to do the show.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

18 / belief

I think a lot of Americans don’t believe that these things work together because what they see is a liberalism that just taxes and spends and Americans don’t see the benefits of that spending.

“I think a lot of Americans don’t believe that these things work together because what they see is a liberalism that just taxes and spends and Americans don’t see the benefits of that spending.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

19 / belief

There will be no Donald Trump of the left because the left is different than the right, but it’ll have to be something authentically of this era, but also authentic to the backlash to it, which I think as we enter into this period where the president and everybody around him fully embraces this attentional economy, I think people are going to want something different from this attentional economy in four years.

“There will be no Donald Trump of the left because the left is different than the right, but it’ll have to be something authentically of this era, but also authentic to the backlash to it, which I think as we enter into this period where the president and everybody around him fully embraces this attentional economy, I think people are going to want something different from this attentional economy in four years.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

20 / uncertainty

If you go back, if you listen to that debate on my show at Vox, I intro that debate by saying, “Look, I disagree with Harris on like this specific conversation he had with Charles Murray about race and IQ. But he’s good on meditation, he’s good on psychedelics, he’s good on consciousness, he’s good…” I don’t know if I said AI back then though, but I think he’s good on AI.

“If you go back, if you listen to that debate on my show at Vox, I intro that debate by saying, “Look, I disagree with Harris on like this specific conversation he had with Charles Murray about race and IQ. But he’s good on meditation, he’s good on psychedelics, he’s good on consciousness, he’s good…” I don’t know if I said AI back then though, but I think he’s good on AI.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

21 / belief

Yeah, that’s a very important cultural. They began to do a thing where spaces were verboten because it had platformed so-and-so, and I think that culture is changing.

“Yeah, that’s a very important cultural. They began to do a thing where spaces were verboten because it had platformed so-and-so, and I think that culture is changing.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

22 / belief

We’re in an era right now of anti-institution politics, anti-establishment politics, and Democrats are at risk right now as being seen as the party that always defends institutions, the party that always defends the establishment status quo, and that is an absolute death knell, I think for this century’s angry anti-establishment politics.

“We’re in an era right now of anti-institution politics, anti-establishment politics, and Democrats are at risk right now as being seen as the party that always defends institutions, the party that always defends the establishment status quo, and that is an absolute death knell, I think for this century’s angry anti-establishment politics.”
Speaker
Not verified from transcript
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

25 / prediction

If AOC comes off brilliant, they’re not going to be thinking, “Oh, this is a place to be brilliant.” They’re going to be like, “Well, because AOC is brilliant, but my candidate is not.

“If AOC comes off brilliant, they’re not going to be thinking, “Oh, this is a place to be brilliant.” They’re going to be like, “Well, because AOC is brilliant, but my candidate is not.”
Speaker
Lex Fridman
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

27 / prediction

There’s all this popular criticism of scientific projects that sound like a waste of money when in reality, at least in the scientific realm, projects that seem like they don’t have any positive effect might actually end up being the ones that transform human civilization as we know it because of the unintended discoveries that happen and all the eureka moments.

“There’s all this popular criticism of scientific projects that sound like a waste of money when in reality, at least in the scientific realm, projects that seem like they don’t have any positive effect might actually end up being the ones that transform human civilization as we know it because of the unintended discoveries that happen and all the eureka moments.”
Speaker
Lex Fridman
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

28 / evaluation

You’re right, there’s some degree to which what the right, when the right speaks about the size of government, it’s a little bit rhetoric and not actual policy because they seem to always grow the size of government anyway.

“You’re right, there’s some degree to which what the right, when the right speaks about the size of government, it’s a little bit rhetoric and not actual policy because they seem to always grow the size of government anyway.”
Speaker
Lex Fridman
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

29 / evaluation

They are meant to be escalators into the middle class, not penthouses for the upper class.” So the housing problem we’re talking about specifically, or most importantly is in urban areas.

“They are meant to be escalators into the middle class, not penthouses for the upper class.” So the housing problem we’re talking about specifically, or most importantly is in urban areas.”
Speaker
Lex Fridman
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

31 / evaluation

Well, I don’t like it because it cuts my ear in a certain way that one of the criticisms I have for Donald Trump and the Trump administration is, there’s a natural circles of sycophancy that forms, and every president has their personality and psychological quirks, and I think he is one of the people where favoritism is more likely to develop.

“Well, I don’t like it because it cuts my ear in a certain way that one of the criticisms I have for Donald Trump and the Trump administration is, there’s a natural circles of sycophancy that forms, and every president has their personality and psychological quirks, and I think he is one of the people where favoritism is more likely to develop.”
Speaker
Lex Fridman
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

33 / evaluation

I have a question about DOGE, but before that, I’ll just say that I don’t think Donald Trump should have that much power because I think to this day, my biggest criticism and concern is that he is a person that denied the results of the election.

“I have a question about DOGE, but before that, I’ll just say that I don’t think Donald Trump should have that much power because I think to this day, my biggest criticism and concern is that he is a person that denied the results of the election.”
Speaker
Lex Fridman
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

34 / preference

You said a lot of really interesting insights there. So, one, if I understood correctly that regulation of outcomes is more a good idea than regulation of process, because regulation of process is where you can breed a lot of, basically the lawyers show up.

“You said a lot of really interesting insights there. So, one, if I understood correctly that regulation of outcomes is more a good idea than regulation of process, because regulation of process is where you can breed a lot of, basically the lawyers show up.”
Speaker
Lex Fridman
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast
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