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6 Oct 2025 Cheeky Pint Tobi Lütke is still captivated by internet commerce, 20 years later

“I think a valid criticism of crypto in the past, as exciting as it is, has been that the utilitarian difference between a real US dollar and a US dollar crypto coin, is that the US dollar crypto coin is mostly, a sort of like a gift certificate for scams.”

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Speaker unverified
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Not verified from this transcript
Claim type
evaluation
Recorded
6 Oct 2025
Publisher
Cheeky Pint

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…'m really excited about it. You can put a link in. I forgot the name, sadly. And now I gift those things because they're just beautiful. No, that's cool. How’s Shop Pay doing? We referenced it there. Shop Pay is awesome. It started out its life as a feature called Remember Me, which is literally the name of what was on the table. We also had a thing that was called “Remember Me.” That's like the original name for Link. No way. Yeah. That's trippy. That's very funny. It makes sense. They're kind of the same thing. I mean Shop Pay is much broader, but they're similar things. Yeah, actually Shop Pay feels more narrow. It's on commerce specifically. Well, you guys do all the shipping tracking. Yeah, that's right. And so yeah, Shop is Shopify's brand for buyers. So, Shopify is what you use to be on Shop. Yeah, what seems interesting to me about it is I think it's a significant part—it's not the only part—but it's a significant part of the inversion where again now the small stores are significantly better off than the large stores online and that's just a striking— It's striking and it's 16% conversion increase by it being around. So it's a remarkable product now partly because again, it's part of branding. It's purple always and people learn to trust it and associate it with a store that's actually recent and cared for. They know before they get to checkout they will not have to type in the address with their thumbs like some kind of heathen from the nineties. You mentioned personalized advertising and being a big fan of it. It seems to me that there's a real symbiotic relationship between Instagram, where people are kind of scrolling in an aesthetic mood, looking at nice things, and then Shopify stores where they need customers. And so, especially during the pandemic, there was this huge growth of direct to consumer brands who really cracked the Instagram CAC to LTV math and they were able to grow in a big way there. Then of course, the Apple ATT changes happened where for a brief period it got harder. It seems like Meta has mostly solved that. But anyway, I'm just curious what's the current state of, is this worldview half true that there's a lot of Shopify merchants that have been able to really scale up thanks to personalized direct advertising? Yeah, a hundred percent. It's a main growth channel—advertising on the platform. The meta platform specifically is just so incredible for this. I think the Meta/Shopify alley-oop has created more businesses than any government policy in history. I mean, if you just compare it to television and consumer packaged goods before, the television channel required broadcast. And so the only things you could really advertise were like mass market high margin products that could afford the advertising— Washing powder and all that stuff. Exactly. Laundry detergent and toothpaste. And so the Instagram/ Shopify is the precise version of this. It's highly meritocratic for products. It's the first time you can advertise niche products. Exactly. And the niche products are actually doing better. That's the crazy thing. Advertising directly snowboards is impossible there because— s. It's the first time you can advertise niche products. Exactly. And the niche products are actually doing better. That's the crazy thing. Advertising directly snowboards is impossible there because— You can't take out a billboard for snowboards. The brands Halo or Burton means you can't compete with that. If there's intersections, snowboards only for powder snow on the US West Coast and in certain environments with, this is not the best example, but usually there's three different intersections of something. You're saying this enables 4K for commerce. There's this higher resolution, more specialization as opposed to the blurry generic products. Yeah, it's exactly. Find the people we're really interested in who appreciate the products. How is the stablecoin rollout going on Shopify? So we're obviously doing lots of stablecoin stuff with lots of people, including you guys, but I feel like you guys are one of the biggest bets on stablecoin pays. Everyone should just be able to use stablecoin as a payment method that we've seen. And so how's that going? I'm obviously like you, a huge fan of the concept of stablecoins. I love the work you're doing there and congrats on the launch of Tempo. The internet just needs its own currencies. I think it's important, at least it needs its own infrastructure to move things by internet speeds. And I'm excited for it. I think a valid criticism of crypto in the past, as exciting as it is, has been that the utilitarian difference between a real US dollar and a US dollar crypto coin, is that the US dollar crypto coin is mostly, a sort of like a gift certificate for scams. There's not that many things you can actually purchase with it that are of high utility value. Obviously this is I think— Why the economy was too circular. Exactly. Most of it was like you purchase other coins, then you might have, I mean hopefully you diamond hand it into some kind of upswing, but it's like that's not usually what happened. And I think that's valuable criticism, but I think the most important thing to happen there is we need to expand what can be purchased with stablecoins to the things people want to purchase outside of just the insular crypto fintech. But yeah, we are working hard on getting all Shopify stores to just take stablecoins. How does the merchant response mean? Very positive. Again, because through the work that Bridge is doing, we can settle into US dollars directly. So the merchants, they've just gained a new ability without having to make a strategic choice, without having to go into a new industry. k that Bridge is doing, we can settle into US dollars directly. So the merchants, they've just gained a new ability without having to make a strategic choice, without having to go into a new industry. Yeah, I think it'll also be interesting to watch the consumer training aspect of it, where QR codes is always my example of this, where the tech has existed since what the nineties, but it was really only during the pandemic when we installed the software in people's brains to understand how QR codes work. But there was a moment and now they're everywhere for everything and obviously they're in Asia before they're in the US and everything like that. I think there'll be something similar with stablecoins where they'll be offered at the point of checkout way before people become super familiar with them, but we're probably only a small number of years away from some mass markets familiarity. I think it's going to be very, very natural for people but also in a way that we just not think about it. It's a normal thing. It doesn't matter. It's going to be so well tooled up to bridge between these things that it's using crypto rails while using the internet and until you need it out of the internet you don't have to bridge anything. So you've referenced a few times the stuff Stripe and Shopify are doing together and we've caught up at various points and you even talked at the meta level about the Stripe/Shopify relationship where there's some, I don’t know, is it like Apple TSMC or something? Where it's deep intertwined building in a stable way, but also expanding over time and no confusion as to who's ultimately the one building the end product, versus who's providing some of the underlying infrastructure. But I'm curious what you think has worked well because yeah, a lot of corporate relationships do not last. I mean I guess if you dated 2012, which I think is accurate, maybe 2011, 2012, like 13 years, it's certainly more tenured than some. Yeah, and I think it's almost more impressive when you think about it as market cap expansion. People get greedy.…

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