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Published · transcript-backedDr. Fei Fei Li: preference
16 Nov 2025 Lenny's Podcast The Godmother of AI on jobs, robots, and why world models are next | Dr. Fei-Fei Li
“There wasn't that much funding, but there was also a lot of ideas flowing around. And I think two things happened to myself that brought my own career so close to the birth of modern AI is that I chose to look at artificial intelligence through the lens of visual intelligence because humans are deeply visual animals.”
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- Speaker
- Dr. Fei Fei Li
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- preference
- Recorded
- 16 Nov 2025
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- Lenny's Podcast
Transcript context
…It is, for me, hard to keep in mind that AI is so new for everybody when I lived my entire professional life in AI. There's a part of me that is just, it's so satisfying to see a personal curiosity that I started barely out of teenagehood and now has become a transformative force of our civilization. It generally is a civilizational level technology. So that journey is about 30 years or 20 something, 20 plus years, and it's just very satisfying. So where did it all start? Well, I'm not even the first generation AI researcher. The first generation really date back to the '50s and '60s, and Alan Turing was ahead of his time in the '40s by asking, daring humanity with the question, "Is there thinking machines?" And of course he has a specific way of testing this concept of thinking machine, which is a conversational chatbot, which to his standard we now have a thinking machine. But that was just a more anecdotal inspiration. The field really began in the '50s when computer scientists came together and look at how we can use computer programs and algorithms to build these programs that can do things that have been only capable by human cognition. And that was the beginning. And the founding fathers the Dartmouth workshop in the 1956, we have Professor John McCarthy who later came to Stanford who coined the term artificial intelligence. And between the '50s, '60s, '70s, and '80s, it was the early days of AI exploration and we had logic systems, we had expert systems, we also had early exploration of neural network. And then it came to around the late '80s, the '90s, and the very beginning of the 21st century. That stretch about 20 years is actually the beginning of machine learning, is the marriage between computer programming and statistical learning. And that marriage brought a very, very critical concept into AI, which is that purely rule-based program is not going to account for the vast amount of cognitive capabilities that we imagine computers can do. So we have to use machines to learn the patterns. Once the machines can learn the patterns, it has a hope to do more things. For example, if you give it three cats, the hope is not just for the machines to recognize these three cats. The hope is the machines can recognize the fourth cat, the fifth cat, the sixth cat, and all the other cats. And that's a learning ability that is fundamental to humans and remaining animals. And we, as a field, realized, "We need machine learning." So that was up till the beginning of the 21st century. I entered the field of AI literally in the year of 2000. That's when my PhD began at Caltech. And so I was one of the first generation machine learning researchers and we were already studying this concept of machine learning, especially neural network. I remember that was one of my first courses at Caltech is called neural network, but it was very painful. It was still smack in the middle of the so-called AI winter, meaning the public didn't look at this too much. was one of my first courses at Caltech is called neural network, but it was very painful. It was still smack in the middle of the so-called AI winter, meaning the public didn't look at this too much. There wasn't that much funding, but there was also a lot of ideas flowing around. And I think two things happened to myself that brought my own career so close to the birth of modern AI is that I chose to look at artificial intelligence through the lens of visual intelligence because humans are deeply visual animals. We can talk a little more later, but so much of our intelligence is built upon visual, perceptual, spatial understanding, not just language per se. I think they're complementary. So I choose to look at visual intelligence and my PhD and my early professor years, my students and I are very committed to a north star problem, which is solving the problem of object recognition because it's a building block for the perceptual world, right? We go around the world interpreting reasoning and interacting with it more or less at the object level. We don't interact with the world at the molecular level. We don't interact with the world as... We sometimes do, but we rarely, for example, if you want to lift a teapot, you don't say, "Okay, the teapot is made of a hundred pieces of porcelain and let me work on this a hundred pieces." You look at this as one object and interact with it. So object is really important. So I was among the first researchers to identify this as a north star problem, but I think what happened is that as a student of AI and a researcher of AI, I was working on all kinds of mathematical models including neural network, including Bayesian network, including many, many models. And there was one singular pain point is that these models don't have data to be trained on. And as a field, we were so focusing on these models, but it dawned on me that human learning as well as evolution is actually a big data learning process. Humans learn with so much experience constantly. In the evolution, if you look at time, animals evolve with just experiencing the world. So I think my students and I conjectured that a very critically-overlooked ingredient of bringing AI to life is big data. And then we began this ImageNet project in 2006, 2007. We were very ambitious. We want to get the entire internet's image data on objects. Now granted internet was a lot smaller than today, so I felt like that ambition was at least not too crazy. Now, it's totally delusional to think a couple of graduate student and a professor can do this. And that's what we did. We curated very carefully, 15 million images on the internet, created a taxonomy of 22,000 concepts, borrowing other researchers' work like linguists work on WordNet, and it's a particular way of dictionarying words. And we combine that into ImageNet and we open-sourced that to the research community. We held an annual ImageNet challenge to encourage everybody to participate in this. ar way of dictionarying words. And we combine that into ImageNet and we open-sourced that to the research community. We held an annual ImageNet challenge to encourage everybody to participate in this. We continue to do our own research, but 2012 was the moment that many people think was the beginning of the deep learning or birth of modern AI because a group of Toronto researchers led by Professor Geoff Hinton, participated in ImageNet Challenge, used ImageNet big data and two GPUs from NVIDIA and created successfully the first neural network algorithm that can... It didn't totally solve, but made a huge progress towards solving the problem of object recognition. And that combination of the trio technology, big data, neural network, and GPU was kind of the golden recipe for modern AI. And then fast-forward, the public moment of AI, which is the ChatGPT moment, if you look at the ingredients of what brought ChatGPT to the world technically still use these three ingredients. Now, it's internet-scale data mostly texts is a much more complex neural network architecture than 2012, but it's still neural network and a lot more GPUs, but it's still GPUs. So these three ingredients are still at the core of modern AI.…
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