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Dwarkesh Patel: uncertainty

4 Jun 2024 Dwarkesh Podcast Leopold Aschenbrenner — 2027 AGI, China/US super-intelligence race, & the return of history

“Looking internationally, I don't know if Xi Jinping sees the GPT-4 news and goes, "oh, my God, look at the MMLU score on that.”

— Dwarkesh Patel

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Everything needed to verify it.

Speaker
Dwarkesh Patel
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
uncertainty
Recorded
4 Jun 2024
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

Transcript context

…The national security state is going to start paying a lot of attention. I hope we get to talk about that. Let’s talk about it now. What happens? What is the immediate political reaction? Looking internationally, I don't know if Xi Jinping sees the GPT-4 news and goes, "oh, my God, look at the MMLU score on that. What are we doing about this, comrade?" So what happens when he sees a remote worker replacement and it has $100 billion in revenue? There’s a lot of businesses that have $100 billion in revenue, and people aren't staying up all night talking about it. The question is, when does the CCP and when does the American national security establishment realize that superintelligence is going to be absolutely decisive for national power? This is where the intelligence explosion stuff comes in, which we should talk about later. You have AGI. You have this drop-in remote worker that can replace you or me, at least for remote jobs. Fairly quickly, you turn the crank one or two more times and you get a thing that's smarter than humans. Even more than just turning the crank a few more times, one of the first jobs to be automated is going to be that of an AI researcher or engineer. If you can automate AI research, things can start going very fast. Right now, there's already at this trend of 0.5 OOMs a year of algorithmic progress. At some point, you're going to have GPU fleets in the tens of millions for inference or more. You’re going to be able to run 100 million human equivalents of these automated AI researchers. If you can do that, you can maybe do a decade's worth of ML research progress in a year. You get some sort of 10x speed up. You can make the jump to AI that is vastly smarter than humans within a year, a couple of years. That broadens from there. You have this initial acceleration of AI research. You apply R&D to a bunch of other fields of technology. At this point, you have a billion super intelligent researchers, engineers, technicians, everything. They’re superbly competent at all things. They're going to figure out robotics. We talked about that being a software problem. Well, you have a billion super smart — smarter than the smartest human researchers — AI researchers in your cluster. At some point during the intelligence explosion, they're going to be able to figure out robotics. Again, that’ll expand. If you play this picture forward, it is fairly unlike any other technology. A couple years of lead could be utterly decisive in say, military competition. If you look at the first Gulf War, Western coalition forces had a 100:1 kill ratio. They had better sensors on their tanks. They had better precision missiles, GPS, and stealth. They had maybe 20-30 years of technological lead. They just completely crushed them. Superintelligence applied to broad fields of R&D — and the industrial explosion that comes from it, robots making a lot of material — could compress a century’s worth of technological progress into less than a decade. That means that a couple years could mean a Gulf War 1-style advantage in military affairs. That’s including a decisive advantage that even preempts nukes. How do you find nuclear stealth submarines? Right now, you have sensors and software to detect where they are. You can do that. You can find them. You have millions or billions of mosquito-sized drones, and they take out the nuclear submarines. They take out the mobile launchers. They take out the other nukes. It’s potentially enormously destabilizing and enormously important for national power.…

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