Jonathan Haidt: evaluation

Transcript context

…Well, in your data, say, depression, well-being problems for young people — they don’t really go down [Cowen meant to say up] when the schools close. A couple of things there. First, I believe the Time Use studies don’t count school time as time with friends because what they’re trying to do is like, how much time you’re in school, how much time you’re sleeping, how much time you’re eating, how much time you’re playing with friends. I’m pretty sure the hours — what we plot in the graph — it has to be the case. Otherwise, the COVID numbers would plummet even more. We’re talking time out of school, that’s the first thing. The second thing is, time in school used to be mostly with friends. You’re either interacting with your friends or with your teachers. Not anymore. Once everyone has a phone in school, if some kids are texting, then you have to check your text. Most kids check their texts during class. My kids go to New York City public schools. The rule is, you’re not supposed to take out your phone, but everyone does, and the teachers give up. Jean Twenge and I — we analyzed PISA data, the big international education survey, and they have six items there about loneliness at school. “Often, I feel lonely at school” and unrelated items. Those were very steady around the world until 2012. Between 2012 and 2016, all around the world except East Asia, but in Europe, North America, Latin America — all those areas, loneliness in school goes up after 2012. Also, after 2012, academic achievement goes down. My argument is, when you give a kid a phone — a flip phone was fine; flip phones were not damaging, but a smartphone is a portal to the entire internet. It’s a way for companies to get to you. Once kids got smartphones around 2012, they spend less time, like at lunch, they’re not playing with each other as much; they’re on their phones. In between classes, they’re not talking in the hallway; they’re on their phones. The phone has been devastating to time with friends in school, time with friends out of school, and time listening to teachers in school because all the time, all the attention goes to the phone — most of the attention. You’re saying the COVID school shutdowns were not a good natural experiment for kids having less face time with each other? I would say it is. It would be hard to design a better natural experiment. It’s truly exogenous.…

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