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Paul Gillingham: evaluation

25 Mar 2026 Conversations with Tyler Paul Gillingham on Why Mexico Stays Together

“The other is You Dreamed of Empires in English, which is a retelling of the conquest as this glorified heist by a bunch of fortunate thugs, which I think most historians would agree with, and has some twists in it which are stunning.”

— Paul Gillingham

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Speaker
Paul Gillingham
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
evaluation
Recorded
25 Mar 2026
Publisher
Conversations with Tyler

Transcript context

…Why Artemio Cruz as your pick? Artemio Cruz, because of the real human complexity of it. It’s the story of a young revolutionary who manages, through violence, luck, business smarts, extortion, to move from very poor beginnings to being a major Mexican mogul. The story skips between his life in decadent old age—and he’s made it, but in a classic sort of the hollowness of wealth down. He’s made it, but in human times, he’s totally emptied. Then the beginning, the story, if he got there, I find it so moving, so tragic, and so deeply evocative of the Mexico I read about, the Mexico I study. I say, if I’d read it 10 years later, who knows? If I’d read it last year, I might actually be ranking it below the recent novels of Álvaro Enrigue, who two novels really stick out. One is like a modern Muerte de Artemio Cruz; it’s called Decency, Decencia, which anybody who likes Mexican humor, likes Mexico City, will just get. The other is You Dreamed of Empires in English, which is a retelling of the conquest as this glorified heist by a bunch of fortunate thugs, which I think most historians would agree with, and has some twists in it which are stunning. Alvaro, of course, has the advantage of he actually reads quite a lot of history. When he writes history, the details are there, and you find yourself nodding, “Oh, yes. I can believe that.” Ezra Klein is a big fan of the conquest book.…

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