Ivan Zhao: evaluation

Transcript context

…So maybe just to close out this thread, for people, for founders that are either struggling and just can't find a thing that's working, "I've been working on something for a long time," I'm curious what advice you'd share for sticking with it. And I'll share things I've heard you say so far and I'm curious if there's something you'd add. One is you just believe this needs to exist in the world and you need to really feel this, "I need this to be a thing." I think there's an element of staying lean, like you've let everyone go and it's just you and Simon again. There's also this element of disconnecting almost and just going to a different location and just like, "Let's just reset." What other elements do you think are key to you finding something that actually ended up working? I'm lucky and Simon lucky that high is never too high, low is never too low for us, so somehow it wasn't feeling too down. Whenever I feel down, I just go to sleep and next day I'm just reset. So that's lucky for me. Definitely don't be afraid to reset. I think courage is quite important because oftentimes you're working on things don't matter, but momentum just took you there. Your first point of building something you want the world to have. What is the building a product or business? You want user. You want revenue. That's a product business. It's almost like a sports. The market is the arena. Then you'd want to optimize the scorecard where it's building for winning. And I grew up playing sports. I like to compete so I like that. And building for something you want the world to have is building for your value. You have some taste. You have some aesthetic. You have some values. You want the world to have more of that. They are different energy. I realize actually fairly recently, they're really different. Depends on which day I wake up, I might be in different mood for things, but building for value it's more lasting and more fulfilling. Looking in the thing we're building today and looking back, I find most proud of thing I create something authentic to myself and happen to be also useful for others, and that just keeps you going. And that feels like a more durable energy source for all those dark years, loss years during Notion, and still every day for me. It's interesting you say that because also there's this aspect of it wasn't working initially because you're building it for yourself and not for people, but what I'm hearing is it's still important to build a thing that you are still excited about but also have you go back and forth. Here's what the business needs and here's the thing I'm excited about.…

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