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Scott Horton: evaluation

26 Jun 2025 Lex Fridman Podcast #473 – Iran War Debate: Nuclear Weapons, Trump, Peace, Power & the Middle East

“That doesn’t mean that they are trying to get nukes. It does mean, as I already said, that they wanted to prove to the world that they know how to enrich uranium and that they have facilities buried deeply enough where, if we attack them, that would incentivize them to making nukes, and then we might be unable to stop them without going all the way toward a regime change, which they’re bluffing, basically betting, that we won’t go that far, considering how gigantic their country is and how mountainous and populous it is compared to Iraq next door.”

— Scott Horton

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Speaker
Scott Horton
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
evaluation
Recorded
26 Jun 2025
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

Transcript context

…Iran had completely redesigned the nose cone of their mid-range missiles and had an entirely different nose cone that would require an entirely different warhead than that described in the documents. And why would they have been designing a warhead to fit in a nose cone that they were abandoning? And so that was refuted. David Albright completely discredited your claims there pal, and then they later admitted that it was a CIA laptop. There was no laptop and they later admitted Ali Hainan admitted who was a very hawkish, not director, but a high level executive at the International Atomic Energy Agency, admitted that that intelligence was brought into the stream by the Mujahideen-e-Khalq communist terrorist cult that used to work for the Ayatollah during the revolution, then turned on him, and he turned on them and kicked them out. Then they went to work for Saddam Hussein where they helped crush the Shiite and Kurdish insurrection of 1991, and then they became America, Donald Rumsfeld’s and Ariel Sharon’s sock puppets and later Ehud Olmert’s sock puppets when the United States invaded Iraq and took possession of them. They’re now under American protection in Albania, and these are the same kooks who just a few weeks ago you might remember saying, “Look, new satellite pictures of a whole new nuclear facility in Iran.” Isn’t it funny how no one ever brought that up again? Didn’t bomb it. It was nothing. It was fake. Just like before when they said, “Hey, look, here’s a picture of a vault door.” And behind that is where the secret nuclear weapons program is except turned out that vault door was a stock photo from a vault company. It meant nothing and they had repeatedly made claims that were totally refuted, just like I’m about to refute his claim, that they ever were the ones who revealed for example, Natanz. He was implying that Natanz and Kham were both buried and hidden until revealed I think you said by dissident groups. That is the MEK sock puppets of the Israelis, but it was your friend David Albright, not the Israeli Mossad through the MEK who revealed Natanz facility. Ask him, he’ll fist fight you over it. He claims credit he was first and said, “This is a facility.” However… Claims credit he was first and said this is a facility. However, they were not in violation of their safeguards agreement with the IAEA. They were still six months away from introducing any nuclear material to that facility. When it was revealed, they weren’t in violation of anything. And then on com we had a huge fight about this at the time. The party line came down from all the government officials in the media that they had just exposed the facility there. Com is Fordo. Same thing. When in fact that wasn’t true. The Iranians had announced to the IAEA that we had built a new facility here, and we are going to introduce nuclear material into it within six months. Here’s your official notification. And then a few days later, they just pretended to expose it, when it was the Iranians themselves who had admitted to it in going along with their obligations under their safeguards agreement. ication. And then a few days later, they just pretended to expose it, when it was the Iranians themselves who had admitted to it in going along with their obligations under their safeguards agreement. It’s just completely wrong. Why do they bury them? They buried them for protection because clearly the Israelis have indicated since the 1990s that they consider any nuclear program in Iran to be the same thing as an advanced nuclear weapons program. You’re hearing that today. For them to have a nuclear facility at all is equivalent to them going ahead and breaking out and making a nuclear weapon, and so of course they know that they have to have it buried to protect it from Israel. That doesn’t mean that they are trying to get nukes. It does mean, as I already said, that they wanted to prove to the world that they know how to enrich uranium and that they have facilities buried deeply enough where, if we attack them, that would incentivize them to making nukes, and then we might be unable to stop them without going all the way toward a regime change, which they’re bluffing, basically betting, that we won’t go that far, considering how gigantic their country is and how mountainous and populous it is compared to Iraq next door. Now, here’s some more things that he said that weren’t true. He said Iran has been killing Americans all this time. Well, that’s almost always a reference to Beirut 1983, which you can read in the book By Way of Deception, by Victor Ostrovsky, the former Mossad officer, that the Israelis knew that they were building that truck bomb to bomb the Marines with and withheld that information from the United States and said, “That’s what they get for sticking their big noses in.” And that is in the book, By Way of Deception by Victor Ostrovsky. And by the way, the Israelis were friends with them, with Iran, at the time all through the 1980s. And it was just a couple of years later when Ronald Reagan sold Iran missiles and using the Israelis as cutouts to do so when he switched sides temporarily in the Iran-Iraq war. And that was in 1983. If Ronald Reagan can sell a missiles a year or two years after that, three years after that, then surely the United States and the Ayatollah can bury the hatchet from that. And no one’s ever even, I don’t believe, ever really proven that Tehran ordered that. It was a Shiite militia backed by Iran, that sort of proto-Hezbollah, that did that attack that killed those Marines. And if there’s some responsibility for it, then damn them. If there’s direct responsibility for that, not just their support for the group, then damn them for that, but that’s still no reason in the world to say that we can’t get along with them now when that was in the same year Return of the Jedi came out. t their support for the group, then damn them for that, but that’s still no reason in the world to say that we can’t get along with them now when that was in the same year Return of the Jedi came out. And then the other one, and this is always referred to, you’ll see this on TV News today. Anyone watching this, turn on TV News, and you’ll hear them say, “Iran killed 600 Americans in Iraq War II,” but that’s a lie. There was a gigantic propaganda campaign by Dick Cheney and his co-conspirators, David Petraeus and Michael Gordon of the New York Times, now at the Wall Street Journal, where they lied and lied like the devil for about five, six months in early 2007 that every time a Shiite set off a roadside bomb, these new improved copper cord enhanced … They’re called EFPs, explosively formed penetrators. Now, anytime that happened, Iran did it, which is what George Bush called short-handing it. In other words, just implying the lie. What they’re saying is Iran backed Muqtada al-Sadr, and America attacked Muqtada al-Sadr, who actually they were fighting the whole war for him. He remains a powerful kingmaker in that country to this day. He’s part of the United Iraqi Alliance. And in fact, as long as we’re taking a long form here, he was the least Iran-tied of the three major factions in the United Iraqi Alliance in Iraq War II. The other two major factions were Dawa and the Supreme Islamic Council, and they had been living in Iran for the last 20 years. They’re the ones who came and took over Baghdad. Muqtada al-Sadr was a Shiite and close to Iran, but he was also an Iraqi nationalist. And at times, he allied with the Sunnis and tried to limit American and Iranian influence in the country. Was more of an Arab and an Iraqi nationalist. And the Americans decided they hated him the most, not because he was the most Iran-tied, but because he was willing to tell us and them two to get the hell out. And America was betting that, if we backed the same parties that Iran backed in Iraq War II, that they would eventually end up needing our money and guns more than they would need their Iranian friends and co-religionists and sponsors next door, which of course did not work out. America’s had minimal influence in supermajority Shiite Iraq ever since the end of Iraq War II. And we can get back later in the show to how Israel helped lie us into that horrific war as well. But the fact of the matter is it was not Iranians setting off those bombs, and it was not even Iranians making those bombs. And I show in my book, Enough Already, I have a solid dozen sources.…

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