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Carole Robin: preference

25 Apr 2024 Lenny's Podcast How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”)

“" Meaning stick with the two realities you know because we get in trouble the minute we start thinking we know the other person's reality.”

— Carole Robin

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Speaker
Carole Robin
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
preference
Recorded
25 Apr 2024
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

Transcript context

…Well, awesome. So they're very related. You were right on the money. And you know what, let me just take a moment and talk. I mentioned the two antennae, and this is in the book, but we're all equipped with two antennae. One is tracking what's going on for me, my internal antenna. The other one is trying to pick up signals on what might be going on for you. And first of all, recognizing those two antennae exist. Second of all, learning how to hone our ability to pick up subtler and subtler signals make us more interpersonally competent. That's also why I'm a big believer in meditation and awareness. So, anyway, if we now fast-forward to your question about how to give feedback well, which has to do with understanding the three realities. It starts with in any exchange between two people, there are three realities. There is my intent, how I see the world, my background, my history, there is what I do or say or don't do, verbal or nonverbal. So my reality is reality number one, my behavior, verbal or nonverbal is reality number two. And whatever happens on your end is reality. Number three, the impact of what I've said or done, how you see things, your background. So there's these three distinct realities. And the trouble we get into when we don't recognize that those three realities exist is we don't understand that we are only privy to two out of the three. So I know what's going on for me, and I know what I did. I have no idea what happened on your end. You know what I did and how it impacted you. So your two are... The only one we share is the one in the middle in common, the behaviors right now, we draw a metaphorical net between reality number one and reality number two to help people understand. And anybody who's ever taken Touchy Feely in no matter which context knows the saying, "Stay on your side of the net. " Meaning stick with the two realities you know because we get in trouble the minute we start thinking we know the other person's reality. Right? So I've told this anecdote many times, it might even be in the book, but I come home... I'm sorry, my husband comes home after a very long day in the valley. He was an executive. I've got two little kids, infant and a 2-year-old. I've been waiting for him to come home. I come running into the front room. In those days, by the way, we still had newspapers. He's reading the newspaper and I say, "Oh my God. Oh my God, you're home. I can't wait until I tell you what happened tonight. I can't believe what happened. Why are we living in Palo Alto, Jesus Christ? I don't want to raise kids in Palo Alto. It's a terrible town. I wish that new nursery school, it hasn't even opened. It's already closed. Oh my God." And then he says, "mm-hmm, great. "So then I say, you're not listening. And by the way, people have been taught iMessages, I feel that you're not listening is exactly the same thing, it doesn't have a single feeling word in it. I don't know whether he was listening or not. I'm over the net. ple have been taught iMessages, I feel that you're not listening is exactly the same thing, it doesn't have a single feeling word in it. I don't know whether he was listening or not. I'm over the net. I'm in his court unless I'm in his head. I don't know whether he was listening or not. But then he says, yeah, I was listening. You're all worked up. You went to that new nursery school. Actually it's more like this. Yeah, you're all worked up and you went to that new nursery school hasn't even opened. You're all worked up. Now I get a little bit more activated and I say, "How can you not care?" First of all, he didn't say, I don't care, did he? I don't know whether he cares or not. And by the way, "How can you be so insensitive?" And I feel that you don't care and I feel you're being insensitive are not feelings. They're attributions and imputed motives, and that's where we make our biggest mistakes when it comes to feedback. And what that does is it makes the other person defensive. So calling my husband insensitive is the most insensitive thing in the world because he's one of the most sensitive people on the planet. So it wasn't until I learned to stay on my side of the net and say, so when I speak and I'm all worked up about something and the only thing I get back from you are either a grunt or an affectless repetition of what I just said, that's reality number two, anybody watching the video would say, that's what happened, I don't feel heard. He can't say, yeah, you do. And when I don't feel heard, I feel hurt and I feel distanced. And the reason I'm telling you that is because I can't be here for you in the way I want to be when I feel that way. So the formula is when you do insert behavior, I feel pull out the vocabulary of feelings and I'm telling you this because, or I'm hoping the outcome of you knowing this is. And so then what happened is he said, "Well, if you want my undivided attention, then you've got to give me some time to unwind when I get home." What a reasonable request. I said, "Well, how much time do you need?" He said, "I don't know, half an hour." "I was like, half an hour?" I've been counting the minutes. How about five minutes? We settled on 15. And by the way, that is the purpose of feedback. When it's constructive feedback, move into a problem-solving conversation, don't change the other person. Move into behaviors that will work better for both of you.…

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