High Signal Podcasts Evidence ledger
Method
Browse
← Back to evidence

Evidence receipt / recommendation

Published · transcript-backed

Nesrine Changuel: recommendation

28 Sept 2025 Lenny's Podcast A 4-step framework for building delightful products | Nesrine Changuel (Spotify, Google, Skype)

“I mean, the hardest job is to identify these motivators, and then you can identify product opportunities related to that. And by the way, we see the shift that we are not too much talking about product space, but rather opportunity space, because solutions are not only about solving problems, but also about honoring needs and making sure that we are solving for those needs.”

— Nesrine Changuel

Source trail

Everything needed to verify it.

Speaker
Nesrine Changuel
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
recommendation
Recorded
28 Sept 2025
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

Transcript context

…Super interesting. Okay, great. And even when we talk about emotional motivators, we have the personal emotional motivators and the social emotional motivators. The personal emotional motivators is how users want to feel while using the product. That's exactly it. The social emotional motivators is how users want others to feel about them. while using the product. I mean, think about wrapped, for example. A lot of people share their wrapped because they want to share how cool they are and in order to be perceived cool and to feel connected. I mean, these are different areas of emotional connection. So this is the first step, identifying emotional motivators also as well as functional motivators. Now, the second step is to convert those motivators. I mean, as soon as you have this list, how can I convert this into an opportunity or product opportunity. So you have the basis. I mean, the hardest job is to identify these motivators, and then you can identify product opportunities related to that. And by the way, we see the shift that we are not too much talking about product space, but rather opportunity space, because solutions are not only about solving problems, but also about honoring needs and making sure that we are solving for those needs. So we can use things like how might we or whatever. By the way, I'm not very religious or strict about whatever framework could be used here. It's all about starting from these motivators and define them and put them in the strategy as opportunities to be solved. So this is second step. The third step where we get to more concrete things here is to try to identify solutions, but that's all for those motivators. So remember, we actually identified action motivators and emotional motivators, and I defined what I call the delight grid. So the delight grid is a matrix where we place functional motivators and emotional motivators. And then you will select among all the identified solutions and you place them in the grade based on what motivators is this solution solving for. I mean, is it solving for one particular functional motivator? Is it solving for one particular emotional motivator or both? Why are we doing this? Because we are categorizing features into three types. There's the surface delight when a feature is only solving for an emotional, I mean, think about wrapped. We used wrapped a couple of times here, but wrapped has nothing functional into it. It's all about allowing people to feel cool and, and share that with their friends. That's surface delight. Yeah. Another example of surface delight. The other day I was using my Apple watch and it was my birthday. So on my birthday, I had these balloon. I don't know if you experienced that, like it's saying happy birthday in the screen. I mean, why not? This is all about creating this emotional connection on the emotional level only. The second type of delight is what I call low delight. It's when the feature is only solving for one of those functional motivators. out creating this emotional connection on the emotional level only. The second type of delight is what I call low delight. It's when the feature is only solving for one of those functional motivators. And of course, the third type, which is the most powerful for me is the deep delight. Actually, this happens when you have a feature where you are at the same time solving for a functional need and also solving for an emotional need. For example, in the case of Spotify, Discover Weekly or Spotify Jam could be a good example of deep delight where we actually can, of course, learn or get inspired with a new music, but in a personalized way. So it allows us to feel heard and seen and understood by the app. And that's the third step, which is about identifying solutions and make sure that they are delightful and categorize them here. The fourth step, which is the last step of the model is validating because how can we make sure that we are not just creating only surface delight or we are just doing it in the wrong way? So I created something that I call the delight checklist. It's actually just a checklist that anyone can go through to make sure that the feature that we're building is making user impact, is making a business impact because like delight is not an excuse. to just add like an aesthetic and fun part in the product. It really has to be aligned with the business. But also there are other couple of things like feasibility, familiarity. A very important part for me is inclusion. Inclusion really has to be taken into consideration here. Because when we talk about emotion, what makes me happy is not necessarily what makes you happy, right? I mean, even myself, I might be happy with something that is not necessarily what's going to make me happy tomorrow. So inclusion is really important when we talk about delight because we've seen a lot of examples where it's done wrong. And I can share some examples here as well. So the example that comes to my mind is actually something that happened last year. here in Paris or in France in general, it was Deliveroo, you know, this company that deliver and actually it was Mother's Day. And on Mother's Day, they came up with the idea of sending notification to Deliveroo users. And the notification look exactly as a missed call from your mom. I mean, if you look at it from the screen, it says like missed call from your mom. You click on it. You get like, hey, it's Mother's Day.…

Stored transcript either side of the excerpt. The highlighted words are the published quote; the surrounding text is unedited source, never generated.

Search evidence