Evidence receipt / evaluation
Published · transcript-backedIvan Zhao: evaluation
6 Mar 2025 Lenny's Podcast Notion’s lost years, its near collapse during Covid, staying small to move fast, the joy and suffering of building horizontal, more | Ivan Zhao (CEO and co-founder)
“I would say the third one, which is even more fascinating, it's for the longest time and it's still is one of the biggest weaknesses of building for Legos, it's hard to piece together.”
Source trail
Everything needed to verify it.
- Speaker
- Ivan Zhao
- Attribution
- Verified speaker
- Claim type
- evaluation
- Recorded
- 6 Mar 2025
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
Transcript context
…Yeah, man. Watch out, everyone. And then you mentioned AI and it's such a good point that AI is best when it has data. And the fact that you have all of this stuff already in there gives you a lot of really interesting opportunities to leverage AI. We definitely did not expect language model. It's such a gift for everybody building tools, right? Complete change the material you can work with. One realization, it's you have a surface area that people spend daily work with, especially during writing and managing your tasks and project. It's really easy to slice the language model writing AI capability into it. So that's the first part we built. That realization is AI is so good at reasoning and understanding and searching things, and we can do a much better job of finding and searching things if all the information are together. That's what we realized. AI is really good with bundled offerings. AI is really good with horizontal tools. So that's the second phase, we call it. The first product was our AI writer product. Second product is AI Q&A or connectors. Please look at all the information in Notion and give your answer. And then we also need to work with the external connector because there's things that are living in Jira, living in Zendesk that other customers still rely on. So we need to build AI connectors. But more and more information coming back to the Notion core. I would say the third one, which is even more fascinating, it's for the longest time and it's still is one of the biggest weaknesses of building for Legos, it's hard to piece together. It's not everybody can put together a Lego set from scratch. There's always the builders and user with the Legos. But guess who is really good at piecing things together, assemble things? Especially things like since Sona 3.5. AI is so bad at writing code. Coding is just assembling things together. So now we're looking at holy shit, we spent the last five, six year building all those Lego blocks for knowledge work. If we're just putting AI coding agent on top of it, you can create any kind of knowledge, customer software, customer agent for whatever your vertical use cases you need. So that's the most fascinating approach for me, and we did not expect this at all. Thank you, AI. Is there anything else along the lines of building horizontal products and bundling that you think is interesting to share or important? Otherwise, I have one last question I want to ask you.…
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