Evidence receipt / evaluation
Published · transcript-backedDwarkesh Patel: evaluation
29 Nov 2023 Dwarkesh Podcast Jung Chang (Wild Swans author) — Living through history's largest man-made famine
“This shows that this was Mao's doing. This is also an interesting example where, whether it's Stalin in Russia or Mao in China, when the tyrant dies, the system automatically improves because nobody else is as crazy as that guy.”
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Everything needed to verify it.
- Speaker
- Dwarkesh Patel
- Attribution
- Verified speaker
- Claim type
- evaluation
- Recorded
- 29 Nov 2023
- Publisher
- Dwarkesh Podcast
Transcript context
…The thing is that in the Cultural Revolution, Mao used young people and their bad traits. They're prone to violence, destructive, sadistic. Any society has these people, but they were given license to indulge their bad instincts in the Cultural Revolution. Now, this took place for a couple of years. Then, Mao reigned them in by using the army. The Red Guards, particularly the most militant, most aggressive, and most violent ones, were dispersed and sent to the villages, sent to the mountains. The disobedient ones condemned themselves and became the targets of a second round of purges. Mao made sure that he controlled the army, so he needed someone to make sure he could wreak havoc and maintain control. Until 1970, Lin Biao was completely cynical. He came to Mao's rescue when there was dissent from Mao's other colleagues, like during the famine and when Mao started the Cultural Revolution. Until the day he fell out with Mao, which was why Mao was suddenly a bit lost because he lost the means to control the army. That's why in 1972, after Lin Biao died trying to flee China, things suddenly became better. Mao had to rely on another person to control the army, Deng Xiaoping. Suddenly universities began to reopen. Things were much better from 1972. Yeah. This is a great instance of, as soon as Mao dies, the Gang of Four is rounded up and arrested, and the Cultural Revolution stops. This shows that this was Mao's doing. This is also an interesting example where, whether it's Stalin in Russia or Mao in China, when the tyrant dies, the system automatically improves because nobody else is as crazy as that guy. What does this show us about if Kim Jong Un died? Should we expect a reversion to a more sane set of things? Tyrants die, and things are not as bad as they used to be. I haven't studied North Korea, so I don't know the inner workings of that society. So much depends on one person. The Kim Dynasty arranged succession. The first Kim Il-sung died, then his son succeeded, then the grandson. It seems the grandson is looking into succession by grooming perhaps his daughter. Stalin couldn't do the family dynasty thing. His children were not like the Kim children. Mao only cared about enjoying life while alive, indulging in power. He didn't care what came after. He was completely materialistic. When he visited Lenin's tomb, he said, "It's all very well visiting Lenin's tomb, but Lenin can't feel anything. He's dead, so it doesn't matter." Mao didn't leave a well-structured legacy.…
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