Speaker unverified: belief

Transcript context

…uined the whole thing because it created all these like awful incentives and brought in all these like, you know, scammers and and people who were not scrupulous actors into the ecosystem. And I worry that that is the piece of this that is going to uh if it fails like cause the failure. Well, I I'll tell you what I would do if I were them. Uh, which is to become the president of the United States because then you can have your own coin. Foreign governments can buy vast amounts of it to curry favor with you. You don't have to disclose that. And then the price goes way up. So, something for them to look into, I would say. It's true. It's true. And we should also mention that there are places uh that are already starting to ban this technology or at least to take a hard look at it. So, uh, World Coin has been banned in Hong Kong. Regulators in Brazil also not big fans of it. Uh, and then there are places in the United States like New York State where you can't do this because of uh a privacy law that prevents the collection of some kinds of biometric data. So, I think it's sort of a race between world and worldcoin and regulators to like see who can like whether the the scale can arrive before the regulations. Well, So let's talk a bit about the privacy piece because on one hand you are giving your uh biometric data to a a private entity and they can then sort of you know do do many things with it some of which you may not like. On the other hand they're trying to sell the idea that this is much more privacy protecting than something like a driver's license that might have your your picture on it. Right. So Kevin, can you sort of walk me through the the privacy arguments for and against what world is trying to do here? Yeah. So, they had a whole spiel about this at this event. Basically, they've done a lot of things to try to protect your biometric data. One of them is like they don't actually store the like scan of your iris. They just hash it and the the hash is stored locally on your device and doesn't like go into some giant database somewhere. But I do think like this is the part where a lot of people in the US are going to kind of fall off the bandwagon or or you know maybe be more skeptical of this idea is like it just feels creepy to upload your biometric data to a a private company one that is not like you know associated with the government or any other entity that might you might inherently trust more. And I think the bull case for this is something like what happened with like Clear at the airport, right? I remember when Clear and TSA PreCheck were launching. It was kind of like creepy and weird and you would only do it if you were like not that concerned about privacy and it was like, "Oh, I'm just going to like upload my fingerprints and my face scan to to this thing that I don't know how it's being used." And then over time, like a lot of people started to care less about the privacy thing and and sort of get on board because it would let them get through the airport faster. I think that's one possible outcome here is that we start just like seeing these orbs in like every gas station and convenience f get on board because it would let them get through the airport faster. I think that's one possible outcome here is that we start just like seeing these orbs in like every gas station and convenience store in America and then we just sort of become desensitized to it and it's like, oh yeah, like I did my orb. Have you not done your orb? I think the other thing that could happen is like this just is a bridge too far for people and they just say, you know what, I don't trust these people and I don't want to give them my eyeballs. Yeah, let me ask one more question about the financial system undergirling world, Kevin, which is I I just learned uh in preparing for this conversation with you that World is apparently a nonprofit. Is that right? So, it's a little complicated. Basically, there is a for-profit company called Tools for Humanity that is sort of putting all this together. They're in charge of the whole sort of scheme. And then there is the world foundation which is a nonprofit that owns the intellectual property uh of the sort of protocol uh on which all this is based. So as with many Sam Alman projects the answer is it's complicated. Uh I think here's where this gets really interesting to me Casey. So Sam Alman co-founder of world also CEO of Open AI. Mhm. Open AI is reportedly thinking about starting a social network. One possibility I can see quite easily actually is that these things eventually merge. That world IDs become sort of the means of logging into the open AI social network, whatever that ends up looking like. And maybe it becomes the way that people will pay for things within the kind of open AI ecosystem. Maybe it becomes the the currency that you get rewarded in for contributing some valuable content or piece of information to the open AI network. I think there are a lot of different possible paths here including by the way like failure. I think that is obviously an option here. But one path is that this sort of becomes uh either officially or unofficially merged and that worldcoin becomes some piece of like the open AAI chat GPT ecosystem. Sure. Or here's another possibility. Sam has to raise so much money to spread world throughout the world that uh he decides that it will actually be necessary to convert the nonprofit into a forprofit. Could you imagine that, Kevin? That would never happen. No, you don't think that could ever happen? No. Let there's no precedent for that. Let me ask one more question about Sam Alman. Um, you know, I I think some observers may feel like that this is essentially Sam uh causing one kind of problem with Open AI and then trying to sell you a solution with world, right? Open AAI creates the problem of well, we can't trust anything in in the media or online anymore. And then World comes along and says, hey, all you got to do is give me your eyeball and I'll, you know, I'll solve that problem for you. So, is that like a fair reading of what's happening here? Potentially. Yeah. I've heard it compared to like the the arsonist also being the firefighter, you know, and um I don't think it's a problem that OpenAI single-handedly is causing. I think we were moving in the direction of like d it compared to like the the arsonist also being the firefighter, you know, and um I don't think it's a problem that OpenAI single-handedly is causing. I think we were moving in the direction of like very compelling AI bots anyway. I think they are basically trying to have their cake and eat it too, right? Open AI is going to make the software that allows people to uh build these very powerful uh AI bots and spread them all over the internet and then uh world and worldcoin will be there on the other side to say hey don't you want to be able to prove that you're a human so I got to say if it works out for them like this is sort of like total domination like they they will have uh conquered the world of AI they will have conquered the world of finance and human verification and basically all uh reputable commerce will have to go through them. I don't think that's probably going to be the outcome here. But there was definitely a moment where I was sitting in the press conference hearing about like the one world money with like the decentralized one world governance scheme that's like started by the guy with the AI company that's making all the chat bots to bring us to AGI. And I just had this sort of like moment of like the future's so weird. It's so weird. Mhm. It's so weird. It was also like one of those moments I feel like living in San Francisco, I don't know if you identify with this, but you just sort of become desensitized to weird things. Like somebody tells you at a party that they're like resurrecting the woolly mammoth and you're like, "Cool." Like that's great. Good for you. Yeah. Um and so it takes a lot to actually give me the sense that like I'm seeing something new and strange. Uh, but I got it at the World Orb event last night. No, I feel I have a friend who once just casually mentioned to me that his roommate was trying to make Dogs immortal and I was like, "Yeah, well, welcome to another Saturday in the big city." Um, so, you know, Kevin, I have to say, as we sort of bring this to a close, I feel torn about this because I think I would benefit from a world where I knew who online was a person and who was not. Um, I think I remain skeptical that eyeball scans are the way to get there. Uh, I think for the moment, while I mostly enjoy being an early adopter, I'm going to be sitting out the the eyeball scanning process. But do you have a case that I should change my mind and uh jump on the bandwagon any earlier? No, I am not here to tell you that you need to get your orb scan. I think that is a personal decision and um people should uh assess their own comfort level and thoughts about privacy and I'm somewhat cavalier about this stuff because I'll try anything for a good story. Um but I think for most people they should really dig into the claims that World and Worldcoin are making and figure out whether that's something they're comfortable with. I would say my overall impression is that I'm convinced that World and Worldcoin have identified a real problem, but not that they have come up with the perfect solution. I do actually think we're going to need something like a proof of humanity system. I'm just not convinced…

Stored transcript either side of the excerpt. The highlighted words are the published quote; the surrounding text is unedited source, never generated.