Evidence receipt / evaluation
Published · transcript-backedJackson Shuttleworth: evaluation
15 Dec 2024 Lenny's Podcast Behind the product: Duolingo streaks | Jackson Shuttleworth (Group PM, Retention Team)
“The idea of keeping a flame lit. And again, I think we've established the flame is for a lot of users as sort of their understanding of a streak, which is great, but there's a lot of people in different cultural context and different stages of life, where the idea of keeping a flame lit to show your commitment to something makes less sense.”
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Everything needed to verify it.
- Speaker
- Jackson Shuttleworth
- Attribution
- Verified speaker
- Claim type
- evaluation
- Recorded
- 15 Dec 2024
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
Transcript context
…That is an awesome example. Hopefully we have time to talk about how the team operates, where my mind goes is like, oh, but you have all these PMs and teams that want to show impact, and the performance reviews, and all that stuff, and you're not shipping something, they're like, oh look, we did a win. So, I want to chat about that later, but let's keep going on things you've learned and things that didn't work along the journey. The other thing that I'll call out with the streak, it's like we have the... The image of the streak is this flame. And we have the streak flame, and it's very much core to our iconography. It's important to acknowledge that that's a metaphor for a retention mechanic. The idea of keeping a flame lit. And again, I think we've established the flame is for a lot of users as sort of their understanding of a streak, which is great, but there's a lot of people in different cultural context and different stages of life, where the idea of keeping a flame lit to show your commitment to something makes less sense. We did some UXR in India many years ago, and this was something that just did not resonate at all there, which was a really interesting learning. And that's something it's like, again, depending upon what your user base is, the more global UXR you can do to understand how users are actually understanding and experience your feature, the better, because you just, again, encounter insights like this. And so, even our screen design, we used to have a flame, it was mostly this flame that would light up every day. But again, it was like an indication of a metaphor for a mechanic, and when we redesigned it, we did this, Kurt, one of our animators, did this awesome odometer animation where it's like your number would tick every day... It looked good, but from a product perspective, what was cool is we actually focused the design on the screen to show your number going up, and then it would say seven day streak, eight day streak. And I think that as you're thinking about designing around a streak, don't get too caught up into what is this the beautiful story that you're trying to tell, at the expense of it being a really comprehensible feature. And so, as you're thinking about product design, making that product design a clear distillation of this is what we're actually tracking, form should follow a function here, was a learning for us. And you'll see that now in a lot of places where we're showing streak, we're really leading with the number, not necessarily the flame. That's a theme that I'm hearing again and again is clarity, don't obsess with making it too clever, and don't ever think it, just clarity has a big impact.…
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