Evidence receipt / belief
Published · transcript-backedJeff Dean: belief
12 Feb 2025 Dwarkesh Podcast Jeff Dean & Noam Shazeer — 25 years at Google: from PageRank to AGI
“I think you want incredibly dense connections between artificial neurons in the same chip and the same HBM because that doesn't cost you that much.”
Source trail
Everything needed to verify it.
- Speaker
- Jeff Dean
- Attribution
- Verified speaker
- Claim type
- belief
- Recorded
- 12 Feb 2025
- Publisher
- Dwarkesh Podcast
Transcript context
…Yeah, that's super fascinating. Okay, Jeff, motivate for me, big picture: why is this a good idea? Why is this the next direction? Yeah, this notion of an organic, not quite so carefully mathematically constructed machine learning model is one that's been with me for a little while. I feel like in the development of neural nets, the artificial neurons, inspiration from biological neurons is a good one and has served us well in the deep learning field. We've been able to make a lot of progress with that. But I feel like we're not necessarily looking at other things that real brains do as much as we perhaps could, and that's not to say we should exactly mimic that because silicon and wetware have very different characteristics and strengths. But I do think one thing we could draw more inspiration from is this notion of having different specialized portions, sort of areas of a model of a brain that are good at different things. We have a little bit of that in Mixture of Experts models, but it's still very structured. I feel like this kind of more organic growth of expertise, and when you want more expertise of that, you add some more capacity to the model there and let it learn a bit more on that kind of thing. Also this notion of adapting the connectivity of the model to the connectivity of the hardware is a good one. I think you want incredibly dense connections between artificial neurons in the same chip and the same HBM because that doesn't cost you that much. But then you want a smaller number of connections to nearby neurons. So, like a chip away, you should have some amount of connections and then, like many, many chips away, you should have a smaller number of connections where you send over a very limited kind of bottlenecky thing: the most important things that this part of the model is learning for other parts of the model to make use of. And even across multiple TPU pods, you'd like to send even less information but the most salient kind of representations. And then across metro areas, you'd like to send even less. Yeah, I think there may be ways to get a lot of the benefits of that with a version system of modularity. I have a frozen version of my model, and then I include a different variant of some particular module, and I want to compare its performance or train it a bit more. Then, I compare it to the baseline of this thing with now version N prime of this particular module that does Haskell interpretation. Actually, that could lead to faster research progress, right? You've got some system, and you do something to improve it. And if that thing you're doing to improve it is relatively cheap compared to training the system from scratch, then it could actually make research much, much cheaper and faster.…
Stored transcript either side of the excerpt. The highlighted words are the published quote; the surrounding text is unedited source, never generated.