High Signal Podcasts Evidence ledger
Method
Browse
← Back to evidence

Evidence receipt / uncertainty

Published · transcript-backed

Jung Chang: uncertainty

29 Nov 2023 Dwarkesh Podcast Jung Chang (Wild Swans author) — Living through history's largest man-made famine

“I haven't studied North Korea, so I don't know the inner workings of that society.”

— Jung Chang

Source trail

Everything needed to verify it.

Speaker
Jung Chang
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
uncertainty
Recorded
29 Nov 2023
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

Transcript context

…Yeah. This is a great instance of, as soon as Mao dies, the Gang of Four is rounded up and arrested, and the Cultural Revolution stops. This shows that this was Mao's doing. This is also an interesting example where, whether it's Stalin in Russia or Mao in China, when the tyrant dies, the system automatically improves because nobody else is as crazy as that guy. What does this show us about if Kim Jong Un died? Should we expect a reversion to a more sane set of things? Tyrants die, and things are not as bad as they used to be. I haven't studied North Korea, so I don't know the inner workings of that society. So much depends on one person. The Kim Dynasty arranged succession. The first Kim Il-sung died, then his son succeeded, then the grandson. It seems the grandson is looking into succession by grooming perhaps his daughter. Stalin couldn't do the family dynasty thing. His children were not like the Kim children. Mao only cared about enjoying life while alive, indulging in power. He didn't care what came after. He was completely materialistic. When he visited Lenin's tomb, he said, "It's all very well visiting Lenin's tomb, but Lenin can't feel anything. He's dead, so it doesn't matter." Mao didn't leave a well-structured legacy. I thought the entire purpose of the Cultural Revolution was to protect his legacy, especially after the Great Leap Forward and the way Khrushchev denounced Stalin.…

Stored transcript either side of the excerpt. The highlighted words are the published quote; the surrounding text is unedited source, never generated.

Search evidence