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Kyle Harper: recommendation

24 Apr 2025 Dwarkesh Podcast Why Rome actually fell: plagues, slavery, & ice age — Kyle Harper

“The example I use in the book is the very famous diary of Samuel Pepys, who's this incredible figure and is very close to Newton and that social group and his name is on the first edition of the Principia.”

— Kyle Harper

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Speaker
Kyle Harper
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
recommendation
Recorded
24 Apr 2025
Publisher
Dwarkesh Podcast

Transcript context

…But at the same time, in that city, you were just mentioning, there are these scientists and people with towering intellects who were basically figuring out how the universe works and how to make all these machines and so forth. One answer is just like what you just said: the distribution was lower, but maybe Newton would have had an IQ a standard deviation higher if he was born today. Just seeing that from the small population, you're seeing so much genius. I guess the question is, how could you have had this much of a deleterious impact on cognitive functioning and still had enough spare geniuses to kick off the Industrial Revolution? Obviously, it didn't keep them from discovering some pretty amazing things. So it couldn't have been completely destructive. That's what's interesting about the early modern period in the 17th, 18th century, in particular, is it's sort of this between period where you have the pre-industrial and the modern that are still mixed together in these really interesting ways. The example I use in the book is the very famous diary of Samuel Pepys, who's this incredible figure and is very close to Newton and that social group and his name is on the first edition of the Principia. These people are this close to each other. But the stuff that I evoke, I won't say—this is a family podcast—but the stuff that Pepys does, bodily functions, is mind-blowing to us. It's vile and disgusting. But at the same time, right down the way, you've got people who are making the most fundamental discoveries about the nature of the universe and inventing machines that will improve productivity and ultimately economic output. That's what's precisely so weird and interesting about that particular period is you have this kind of mingling of the old and the new. When I had Joseph Henrich on, one of the things he discusses is if you look at... cultural evolution has figured out some remarkable things. If you look at the cuisines of different cultures, apparently the spices they use match the antimicrobial and antifungal properties you need in that particular biome. At the same time, you’re reading that part of the book, I'm like, "Okay, I get in some cases, they just genuinely did not have the resources to invest in public health and so forth". But come on, you're just like sleeping in your own vomit and so forth. Why didn't cultural evolution or something like foresight just be like, "Hey, this we can sort of do without"?…

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