Ian McAllister: preference

Transcript context

…I would say two very different people but complimented themselves so well. I didn't have hundreds of meetings with Jeff Bezos while I was there, but I did have a chance, especially in the development of Amazon Smile and then early when I started the social team to have some of those meetings where I wrote the doc and it was Jeff and 10 other people reviewing. The process of doing, even before hitting on Amazon Smile, it was really kind of a innovation process I guess you could call it, where we had a goal in mind to increase customers' loyalty to Amazon, their direct traffic loyalty, not in the way Prime did, which is a paid program, but to try to come up with another program or way in which customers might start their shopping on Amazon instead of elsewhere. And so I was running the gifting business. I moved over to the traffic org to try to come up with a new program with no team or anything. And then I would meet with Jeff Bezos and Wilke and others every couple months and I would profile a couple different options and use the working backwards process and we'd review some facts. And so there was a bunch of learnings throughout that process. One, I found Jeff to be super encouraging. And each time we'd leave one of those meetings, we maybe didn't find the thing in that meeting. We'd talk about it and brainstorm a little bit, but he would always leave and be encouraging and with a quote. One time he was like, "Remember, this process doesn't have to be efficient because the prerequisite for efficiency is knowing where you're going." And then he'd leave the room and whatever. So I found the rhetoric around Jeff or blowing up or whatever, I didn't find any of that and I found him to be super encouraging and he found all these times to help train me in the working backwards process. There was a time when I came with a press release for a concept and it didn't have a problem paragraph. I'd skipped that. And he reviewed it and so forth and he was like, "You know what, maybe if you don't have a problem paragraph, there's not really a problem." And so it was kind of a little lesson to me like, "Yeah, maybe that is why I did it. I wasn't really working backwards, I kind of had the solution in mind and so I'd skipped over that part." So that was one just very specific learning about the process from Jeff. So Jeff Wilke, I probably learned more from Wilke just because I had more exposure over my time there. At one point he was my skip level. And I have such tremendous respect for Wilke or Jaw as he was called internally because he was sort of the consummate operator. This muscle that I think you learn working at Amazon about being an operator, whether you're ... You're not in operations, but any part of the business that I think came from him. And I think it was due to him that Amazon developed that muscle. t Amazon about being an operator, whether you're ... You're not in operations, but any part of the business that I think came from him. And I think it was due to him that Amazon developed that muscle. And I think it's one way that separates some Amazon PMs from people who haven't worked there in that environment and that continuous improvement mindset. That's so important. And one of the forums that was a great learning was the WBR or Weekly Business Review. Or later called Consumer Business Review. So this was a forum where Jeff would lead the meeting. It would be a series of metrics for different parts of the business. Everywhere from fulfillment to customer support, to traffic to category teams to programs. And I would present on Amazon Smile there. And the way he would run that meeting and enable you to get through a metrics meeting for the entire North American retail business in one hour. And the way he ran that meeting would lead all those leaders to build these muscles because you wanted to be prepared to speak to the variances or trends in your business in a key metric and know your business and know what you were doing based on that thing. And so just this hour a week of probing and asking questions and everyone ... There might be a hundred people in that room prepared to answer questions about your business. And it had this cascading effect that not only was I or the leaders there on the spot having to answer a question and being prepared, but then I would do the same thing with my team, et cetera. And so I was trying to build those muscles in my team such that they could bring their insights and understanding and actions on things in this cascading effect. So that was a mechanism, which is another really big thing at Amazon that led to all these amazing behaviors. And I think a lot of those mechanisms came from Jeff Wilke or he created an environment where they would be developed throughout the organization and then propagated. And so that was one thing, just that operational mindset and rigor that being a product leader is not just about building new things, it's about how well you run what you've already built. And if you're really paying attention to the product that you operate, it will give you ideas for things you could do to double down on something that's happening well or to prevent something bad happening. And I think that's been a very key reason for Amazon's scale. Another thing I really respect about Jeff Wilke, and I think Doug Harrington has some of this as well, is the notion of a little bit of tough love. And I think that's important and that neither were assholes, but sometimes, and especially Wilke, you need to get that look kind of like your dad might look over his glasses at you and be like, "Hey. " And so I think that was kind of the vibe that you would get. It was professional, it was respectful, but sometimes everyone needs a little kick in the ass and I think that was something, but it almost builds more respect from him and just incredible leaderly behavior, which I really respect and I try to model and I try to do the same because I respected it so much. that was something, but it almost builds more respect from him and just incredible leaderly behavior, which I really respect and I try to model and I try to do the same because I respected it so much. And then I guess the last attribute of Wilke, which I really saw was teaching. And it wasn't just saying this is the right thing or this is what my decision is in a meeting, but teaching the why and the pattern, the mental model that informs him to think this is the right thing. And so I think he was just great at teaching, taking a moment. It might just take 10 seconds in a meeting to teach. And that's something that I've forgotten at different parts of my career, especially as you get more experienced and you know the right decision to do and you know what you want, whatever, that may be the right thing, but I think you'll have a lot more lasting effect if you could abstract it to a degree and teach the lesson. Because then that person will hopefully learn the lesson and can apply it to a bunch of future situations and also understand the why more. And it helps them sometimes disagree and commit more so than just being given prescriptive advice.…

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