James Holland: evaluation

Transcript context

…The Munich Conference is a pretty interesting moment, I would say in all of human history, because you got the leaders of these bigger-than-life nations and the most dramatic brewing conflict in human history, Chamberlain, Hitler, Mussolini, Daladier. It’s interesting when these bigger-than-life leaders are in a room together. Is there something that you know about their interactions? Yeah, I think one of the things that’s interesting is that Hitler’s got home advantage because it’s on his turf and the start off at the first meeting is at the Berghof, his beloved place in the Obersalzburg overlooking Berchtesgaden in the Alps. So he’s pretty confident because, “This is my manor, this is my turf. I’m not going to be bossed around by these guys.” But Chamberlain, for example, he’s going there thinking, “I’ve been around the blocks. No one can teach me anything. I’ve been a politician for ages. I’m not going to be kind of capped out by this sort of Austrian upstart.” So they’re both coming at it with a slight kind of superiority kind of conflict. Interestingly, when you get to the actual meetings at the [inaudible 01:21:27] in Munich a couple of weeks later, Chamberlain is cheered by the crowds when his car comes in, when he goes to his hotel, when he’s moving from his hotel to the [inaudible 01:21:40]. There are cars cheering him, waving Union Jacks, all this kind of stuff. Hitler does not like that at all, not at all, puts him on the back foot. And that’s because the German people don’t want war, in the same way that the British people don’t want war, nor do the German people. The difference is that Hitler is a dictator and an autocrat and has the devotion of the people so he can do what he wants in a way that Chamberlain can’t. Chamberlain’s hands are tied because he is an elected prime minister, an elected leader, political leader, and he’s not head of state. So there is no question that it is Hitler and Chamberlain that are the top dogs in this particular discussion. Daladier takes the back seat. Even Mussolini, although he’s there, he doesn’t want war, either. He wants to be left alone to do his own thing without anyone getting in the way. But he doesn’t want, it’s not in his interest to have a European war so he’s trying to avoid it. So it is really, you see that the kind of alpha males in the room are Chamberlain and Hitler, and it’s really interesting because Hitler’s got this sort of slightly garrulous voice and very kind of pale blue eyes and such distinct features, quite a long nose. And he always says this is why he has the mustache is to kind of disguise the big nose. As I was saying to you earlier on before we started recording, he does have a sense of humor. It’s not one that you and I would kind of tap into, but he does have one. Whereas Chamberlain, he sounds like bit like an old man. He’s sort of silver-haired, and he looks like your sort archetypal kind of British gentleman with rolled-up umbrella and his Homburg hat and all the rest of it. So they’re both sort of caricatures in a funny sort of way. haired, and he looks like your sort archetypal kind of British gentleman with rolled-up umbrella and his Homburg hat and all the rest of it. So they’re both sort of caricatures in a funny sort of way. And yet, the consequence of these discussions, these great events happening, you are absolutely going, even which way the Munich crisis comes out, you’re taking a step closer to war. It’s just whether the war is going to happen next week or whether it’s going to happen a year, hence. But the Munich crisis obviously doesn’t stem the inevitability of war at all. It just heightens it.…

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