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Nicole Forsgren: evaluation

19 Oct 2025 Lenny's Podcast How to measure AI developer productivity in 2025 | Nicole Forsgren

“It helps us with market share, it helps us attract and retain customers, it helps us do all of these things. And I think DevEx is important because it enables all of that software creation, it enables all of that problem solving.”

— Nicole Forsgren

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Speaker
Nicole Forsgren
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
evaluation
Recorded
19 Oct 2025
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

Transcript context

…So interesting. Let me zoom out a little bit and... Before we get into your framework for how to approach developer experience, the latest thinking you've got, beyond just obviously engineers doing more is great, what's your best pitch for why companies should really, really focus on developer experience? I hate to say return of investment, but the business value is... the opportunity here is huge. In general, we write software for fun and for hobbies, but we also have software because it meets a business need. It helps us with market share, it helps us attract and retain customers, it helps us do all of these things. And I think DevEx is important because it enables all of that software creation, it enables all of that problem solving. It enables the super rapid experimentation with customers that... Before, you'd need a while for a prototype and maybe a little bit longer to actually flight it through an A/B test on a production system. You can do it in hours, right now. Maybe the opposite end of the spectrum, getting very tactical, before we get into the larger framework, what's just one thing that you think an eng team, a product team can do this week, next week to help their developer experience maybe get more done?…

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