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Published · transcript-backed

Diane Penn: belief

26 Jul 2026 Lenny's Podcast Anthropic’s first technical PM on token maxing, the jagged edge, and living in the future | Dianne Penn

“I think the folks that would be most successful, regardless of their level, are people who love working with AI and are exploring and experimenting. And carving out the time, not just for the experimentation, but actually hands-on shipping end-to-end, getting the user feedback, I think has to be fundamental for everyone.”

— Diane Penn

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Everything needed to verify it.

Speaker
Diane Penn
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
belief
Recorded
26 Jul 2026
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

Transcript context

…So what I'm hearing here is no matter where you are in the ladder of hierarchy at a company, if you're not building yourself, if you're not actually talking to cloud, talking to Codex, building stuff, you're not going to make it. And you should have fun working with this technology. I think that's the other piece. I think the folks that would be most successful, regardless of their level, are people who love working with AI and are exploring and experimenting. And carving out the time, not just for the experimentation, but actually hands-on shipping end-to-end, getting the user feedback, I think has to be fundamental for everyone. I 100% know what you mean there. Just me sitting on my newsletter and this podcast just talking about stuff and like, yeah, yeah, that sounds great. Every time I actually build something, and I tinker with all kinds of little projects, you're just like, okay, I see what's happening here. And you just get so much more. It's hard to exactly describe what you experience actually working with the models and building stuff, but it's a whole different world of like, okay, I see. Here's what they're talking about computer use; here's what they're talking about with this limitation of this UX situation. And you made this really interesting point that you have to have fun with it, which is not easy for a lot of people because they're pushed to use AI or they just don't know exactly what to do with it. For people that are just like, I don't know, it's just so annoying. I just have to do this. I hate this frigging thing. Why do I have to work with this? Things are changing so much. I'm tired. Advice for helping people find that joy in this work.…

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