High Signal Podcasts Evidence ledger
Method
Browse
← Back to evidence

Evidence receipt / belief

Published · transcript-backed

Hamel Husain: belief

25 Sept 2025 Lenny's Podcast Why AI evals are the hottest new skill for product builders | Hamel Husain & Shreya Shankar (creators of the #1 eval course)

“I think one of the most important things to pay attention in this paper are the criteria drift, and what she found.”

— Hamel Husain

Source trail

Everything needed to verify it.

Speaker
Hamel Husain
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
belief
Recorded
25 Sept 2025
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

Transcript context

…Thank you, thank you. I should let Shreya talk about this. I think one of the most important things to pay attention in this paper are the criteria drift, and what she found. We did this super fun study when we were doing user studies with people who were trying to write LLM judges or just validate their own LLM outputs. I think this was before evals was extremely popular, I feel like, on the internet. We did this project late 2023 was when we started it. But then the thing that really was burning in my mind as a researcher is like, "Why is this problem so hard? We've been having machine learning and AI for so long, it's not new, but suddenly, this time around, everything is really difficult." We just did this user study with a bunch of developers and we realized, "Okay, what's new here is that you can't figure out your rubrics upfront. People's opinions of good and bad change as they review more outputs, they think of failure modes only after seeing 10 outputs they would never have dreamed of in the first place," and these are experts. These are people who have built many LLM pipelines and now agents before, and you can't ever dream up everything in the first place. I think that's so key in today's world of AI development.…

Stored transcript either side of the excerpt. The highlighted words are the published quote; the surrounding text is unedited source, never generated.

Search evidence