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Published · transcript-backed

Jennifer Burns: belief

19 Jan 2025 Lex Fridman Podcast #457 – Jennifer Burns: Milton Friedman, Ayn Rand, Economics, Capitalism, Freedom

“” The whole thing breaks up. But what I argue in my book is actually this is to the benefit of Rand’s ideas, because Rand herself was so controlling over her ideas.”

— Jennifer Burns

Source trail

Everything needed to verify it.

Speaker
Jennifer Burns
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
belief
Recorded
19 Jan 2025
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

Transcript context

…She supported the institute? She supported it. And at first it was to help her in her depression. He said, “The world needs to recognize your genius. They missed Atlas Shrugged, but I’m going to teach them. I’ll bring the message.” And it’s very successful. It becomes its own business. It has a newsletter. It’s a whole world. That small cult around Ayn Rand expands to this whole social network, and it’s very much a piece with this burgeoning conservative movement. Objectivists are involved in criticizing the draft. There’s kind of a libertarian objectivist world going on. All of this is happening. In the meantime, Nathaniel Branden has found a new partner, but he doesn’t tell Ayn Rand this because he knows she’ll be upset. It goes on for years. Ayn Rand knows something is going on, but she can’t quite figure it out. And finally, Barbara, Branden says to Nathaniel Branden, “You know, you have to tell her. This has just gone on too long.” She finds out and the whole thing blows up, and she exiles him and she breaks off contact with him. And nobody has ever told what happens. It’s called the [inaudible 02:58:23]. Objectivism breaks in two, because some people say, “How could Ayn Rand do anything wrong?” And other people say, ” What is this letter all about? And what did Nathaniel Branden do? I’m not just going to take her word for it. I need more information.” Then a bunch of people read all the accounts of this. A bunch of people are like, “Okay, they were having an affair.” And a bunch of other people are like, “No, that couldn’t possibly be happening. ” The whole thing breaks up. But what I argue in my book is actually this is to the benefit of Rand’s ideas, because Rand herself was so controlling over her ideas. And now that she steps back from a public role, objectivism flows into the student libertarian movement. Some objectivists become conservatives. It just spreads out more generally, and you don’t have to drink the Kool-Aid. You don’t have to take the official course. Nathaniel Branden goes on to be part of the self-esteem movement, Human Potential Movement, California and Ayn Rand lives another 10 years or so, but she doesn’t do major work after that. Since we were talking about some of the all… Although rationalized some strange sexual partnerships that their engagement in, I have to ask about The Fountainhead and the, quote, unquote, “Rape scene.” In the Fountainhead. Was she intending to add that there to be controversial? How we’re supposed to read into it? Is it a glimpse into Ayn Rand’s sexuality? Maybe broadly we can say, “Well, what was her view on sexuality, on sex, on power dynamics in relationships?”…

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