Evidence receipt / evaluation
Published · transcript-backedJonny Steinberg: evaluation
28 Oct 2025 Conversations with Tyler Jonny Steinberg on South African Crime and Punishment, the Mandelas' Marriage, and the Post-Apartheid Era
“A number of his opponents and enemies were being policed by a function that was made to be a state function, not a party function. And that saw a rapid decline because once police are seen as a politician’s vehicle, it becomes very difficult to make its bureaucratic integrity.”
Source trail
Everything needed to verify it.
- Speaker
- Jonny Steinberg
- Attribution
- Verified speaker
- Claim type
- evaluation
- Recorded
- 28 Oct 2025
- Publisher
- Conversations with Tyler
Transcript context
…And during the transition from apartheid, what mistakes do you think were made with policing and police forces? What would you have done differently, with the benefit of hindsight? Well, there was a four- or five-year hiatus in which the new government did not trust the existing police, but also had a constitutional agreement not to get rid of them. There was a long pause, and oddly, in that pause, some fairly good work was done. When South Africa’s second democratically elected president came to power, Thabo Mbeki, he immediately began using the police to police his own party. He put his own police commissioner in place. A number of his opponents and enemies were being policed by a function that was made to be a state function, not a party function. And that saw a rapid decline because once police are seen as a politician’s vehicle, it becomes very difficult to make its bureaucratic integrity. Now, if I’m in Cape Town, at least many parts of that seem relatively safe. What have they done differently or why has that evolved differently?…
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