Evidence receipt / recommendation
Published · transcript-backedVarun Parmar: recommendation
20 Apr 2023 Lenny's Podcast An inside look at how Miro builds product: Lessons on outmaneuvering competitors, team structure, product quality, and moving fast | Varun Parmar (CPO of Miro)
“I would say getting reliable data, and then because we have some things that are going through meetings and there are some things that are going through Slack, we could do better on some of those dimensions, but all of this data is available and we provided it openly and folks can benchmark themselves against that.”
Source trail
Everything needed to verify it.
- Speaker
- Varun Parmar
- Attribution
- Verified speaker
- Claim type
- recommendation
- Recorded
- 20 Apr 2023
- Publisher
- Lenny's Podcast
Transcript context
…Super cool. You also talked about, in the middle part of that sentence, of moving faster and that you track and measure that somehow. Can you talk more about that? Because that's something every product team is always trying to understand. "How do we know if we're going faster, if we're going as fast as we could?" How do you actually do that? How do you measure these things? The core philosophy there is velocity is more like the game of golf where you're just playing against yourself. It's not like if Lenny and Varun are out at the golf course, it doesn't matter. I'm not competing against you, I'm just competing against myself because that's the only... I'm going to just hit the ball, so it's like how much better can we get? I think our core philosophies around that and what we're trying to do is that on all the product teams, the feature teams that we have, we're just collecting all the information and we are making it available to everyone so that they can actually see what the cycle times are. What we are interested in is from the time that you have an insight, from the time you believe "I can do something unique for my user, for my persona," how long does it take for you to actually deliver that value? We have a product process that we follow, which starts with a P-strat, which is a strategy, and then we go into P0, which is definition of the problem, then we go into P1, which is definition of the solution, and then we go into P2, which is once the solution is shipped, are we hitting the metrics that we originally had defined upfront before we decided to work on this. You have all of these stage gates and then we basically classify everything that we are doing in small, medium, large. You can go in and you can say, "Hey, I thought this was a small thing," and small thing is something you can get it done in less than a month, and so on and so forth. There are 50 other product teams that are shipping these features, and what's the average, what's the variance, what's the median? "Oh, wait a second, actually it seems like I took way more time in the problem definition stage. Let me actually try to go talk to this other product team that actually did it much faster," or "Oh, I actually did it really, really fast, and the reason why I did it fast was because of this. Let me go share this out with the broader team." Usually the product ops function, we call it product excellence internal, sort of product excellence function, is recording some of these things. I would say getting reliable data, and then because we have some things that are going through meetings and there are some things that are going through Slack, we could do better on some of those dimensions, but all of this data is available and we provided it openly and folks can benchmark themselves against that. So cool. Okay, so you have this P-strat, you called it, document which is kind an initial concept and then it's interesting you use the P0, P1, which is often for bugs, but it's cool that you use it for defining your products. So P-strat is just an idea pitch. P0 is a spec, basically, like a one-pager for the product, and then P1 and P2 are basically getting to "Here's the actual product we're building." And you basically track time per step and map it to, "Here's how large this project should be." Over time you track per person, it sounds like, just like are you matching the benchmarks of how long a small project should take across each step?…
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