Harvey Mansfield: belief

Transcript context

…Now, it’s a recurring theme in your book, this idea of rational control. What do you think of the Hayekian tradition that suggests that it is impossible, the complex systems traditions that see things as a spontaneous order, matters are the result of human action but not of human design, and that rational control is a kind of illusion? What’s your view of those thinkers? Negative. I think that their idea of spontaneous order is an idea which is intended to be a kind of form of rational control, and which can be seen in the original author of the rational control, namely Machiavelli. Machiavelli wanted to let things ride, to take the leash off humanity, especially the Christian leash, and let the nobles and plebs fight it out, as happened in Rome. That’s how he begins his discourses. The kind of spontaneous order that arises from liberated human beings with all their powers and energies and attempts is the way in which modern order originally began. That order comes out of liberation and not out of imposition. I think Hayek is just an advanced version of what was originally intended. What was originally intended also included the imposition that is required to liberate spontaneous order. Spontaneous order always presents itself as not spontaneous, as covered over in sludge, and spoiled, prevented, inhibited. It’s something that needs to come to pass, but also, if that’s to be the case, needs to be liberated. I would say that the Hayekian view overlooks the necessity of liberating spontaneity. That doesn’t happen spontaneously. I recall having read that in the early 1950s, you saw in person a speech by Winston Churchill. Is that true? If so, what were your impressions?…

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