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Anthony Kaldellis: belief

30 Jun 2026 Lex Fridman Podcast #498 – Anthony Kaldellis: Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire, Rise & Fall of Empires

“What’s coming from it is the stability, and I think that’s the more interesting part of this society.”

— Anthony Kaldellis

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Everything needed to verify it.

Speaker
Anthony Kaldellis
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
belief
Recorded
30 Jun 2026
Publisher
Lex Fridman Podcast

Transcript context

…So you mentioned this loop of thriving and then having to survive, surviving, that happens a few times- … throughout the history of the Roman Empire. It seems that societies in general oscillate in that way. Is there something particular you could say about the oscillations, the loops that the Roman Empire goes through? Yes. Now, I don’t think this is an oscillation. At least that’s not how I think of it in my own mind. So as I explained, the crises that this em- this polity, this state, this society that it undergoes are dis- there are a discrete number of them. I can, I can tell you what they are, and we’ve, we’ve talked about most of them so far. They don’t last very long, and they are all sudden challenges that appear from the outside. In other words, they’re exogenous shocks that they can’t really have prepared for. These shocks cause massive territorial loss, which requires adjustment, right? But they don’t last that long. In other words, the Romans almost always, at some point, figure out how to hold a line, how to consolidate their position, regroup, and put their economy and their society back on a trajectory of revival, regrowth, and eventual reconquest. Always. Every single time, except the last time, right? And for me, this poses the following kind of dilemma which I can answer. And the dilemma is, should we define the society by these brief crises of exogenous shocks, or should we define it by the centuries-long, sometimes, periods of regrowth, consolidation, and stabilization which are endogenous. Nobody came from the outside to help them rebuild. And my answer is unequivocally the latter. So I see this as a society whose internal organization primes it to stabilize and embark on steady growth. Slow and gradual, but steady. And, and that’s what I would like my field to explain more, and I’m gonna try to do so in the book I mentioned that I’m writing on, like, the longevity or the resilience of this society. And not try to center the crises, which I see as being from the outside. Like, these aren’t… Of course, they’re part of its story, but they’re not coming from it. What’s coming from it is the stability, and I think that’s the more interesting part of this society. Yeah, so the, you know, these peak-to-peak histories, as you can think of them, they miss the machinery in the valleys. Institutions, incentives, daily life, all of these things. The politics, the religion. You have a bunch of revisionist history ideas in your work. You’re challenging the field.…

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