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Published · transcript-backedLex Fridman: evaluation
1 Aug 2025 Lex Fridman Podcast #476 – Jack Weatherford: Genghis Khan and the Mongol Empire
“I think what is happening in Gaza is an atrocity, and I think that the Israeli government is directly responsible for it.”
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- Lex Fridman
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- Verified speaker
- Claim type
- evaluation
- Recorded
- 1 Aug 2025
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- Lex Fridman Podcast
Transcript context
…Thanks for listening to this conversation with Jack Weatherford. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description and consider subscribing to this channel. And now, let me answer some questions and try to articulate some things I’ve been thinking about. If you’d like to submit questions including in audio and video form, go to lexfridman.com/ama. Or if you want to contact me for other reasons, go to lexfridman.com/contact. And now, allow me to make a few comments on the ever-evolving moral landscape of human civilization throughout our 10,000-year history. I was listening to Dan Carlin’s excellent eye-opening five-and-a-half-hour episode of Hardcore History titled Human Resources. It covered the topic of slavery, the Atlantic slave trade to be exact. One of the lessons I took from this episode is that the long arc of history is full of atrocities, as we modern-day humans understand them with the wisdom of time and moral progress. But during each period of history, as Dan documents, it was difficult for the majority of people to see just where the line between good and evil is. We humans, after all, forever like to weave a story in which we are the good guys. Listening to Dan discuss, and later myself, reading first-hand accounts of slaves, of torture, of rape, of separation of families is incomprehensibly heartbreaking. By the way in this topic, first-hand accounts of slavery could be read in Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States from interviews with former slaves. I can recommend the book that I’ve been reading, which is Voices from Slavery: 100 Authentic Slave Narratives. It all seems deeply and obviously wrong by today’s standards. But slavery was seen as normal through most of human history. Thomas Jefferson, the man who wrote, “All men are created equal,” which I think is one of the most powerful lines in all of human history. He himself was a slave owner, making him a fascinating case study of contradictions. In fact, there’s evidence that Thomas Jefferson drew from Genghis Khan’s ideas about the importance of religious freedom, pulling as he did foundational ideas of human freedom from the jaws of deep history. And Dan, in his episode, documents these contradictions and complexities quite well. The full range of human psychology involved, including how violations of basic human rights breed generational hatred. This I think is an important lesson to understand. The consequences of our moral failings can reverberate through decades, even centuries, and that is perhaps one of the values of studying history. It is laden with atrocities, but it also contains people who, while flawed, dare to rise in some way above the moral decrepitude of the day to try to build a foundation of a slightly better future world. As MLK Jr. put it, “The arc of moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.” in some way above the moral decrepitude of the day to try to build a foundation of a slightly better future world. As MLK Jr. put it, “The arc of moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.” And now, please allow me to say a few words about Gaza, Israel and Palestine. I’m not sure I’m eloquent enough or know quite the right words to express what I’m feeling. But let me try. I think what is happening in Gaza is an atrocity, and I think that the Israeli government is directly responsible for it. And to the degree the US government is assisting the Israeli government in this, which I believe it currently is. It needs to stop immediately. For me as an American makes me sick to know that my government has any role in this atrocity. This needs to stop. Yes. There’s geopolitical and military complexity, nuance, and historical context that I’m told by some so-called experts that one must understand. And perhaps they are smarter than me. But like mentioned before, unlike the more complexity of deep history that I’ve often spoken about from the Roman Empire to the Atlantic slave trade, this is the 21st century. This is today. In this, the 21st century, I see things quite simply and clearly. To me, the death of a child is a tragedy. It doesn’t matter what their skin color is, what their religion is, or what plot of land they call home. In my view, they are all equal, and the death of each child is a tragedy. Hamas did a definitively evil act on October 7th, brutally murdering over 1,000 civilians. But now, the acts of war conducted by the Israeli government have led to the death of over 60,000 people in Gaza, likely over 80,000 people, of which at least 17,000 are children, 17,000. I’m not smart enough to know the path to peace and flourishing of all the peoples in the region. But I do know that what has been happening in Gaza cannot be the way. Suffering at this kind of scale breeds generational hate that leads to more evil in the world, not less, to more destruction, to more suffering. This has to stop. Two years ago, I spoke with many Palestinians in the West Bank on camera and off. There’s a video of it up if you want to hear their voices for yourselves. It was a deeply moving experience for me, and I’m grateful for it. In the future, I hope to find a way to talk to people in Gaza. I still think it’s valuable to talk to leaders, historians, soldiers, activists from all perspectives. But the most powerful and moving conversations for me on mic and off have always been with everyday people. This always felt like where the truth is, the deeper truth of life, of pain, fear, of hope, and I still have hope. I believe we humans are good at the core, and I know we’ll find our way. Thank you for listening. I love you all.…
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