Evidence receipt / belief
Published · transcript-backedJonny Steinberg: belief
28 Oct 2025 Conversations with Tyler Jonny Steinberg on South African Crime and Punishment, the Mandelas' Marriage, and the Post-Apartheid Era
“My puzzle was to put that all together in one psyche and one human being, and I think that in the end, I saw these amazing antinomies in her, not as contradictions, but as part of one psychic architecture.”
Source trail
Everything needed to verify it.
- Speaker
- Jonny Steinberg
- Attribution
- Verified speaker
- Claim type
- belief
- Recorded
- 28 Oct 2025
- Publisher
- Conversations with Tyler
Transcript context
…But I’m a reader, right? You can be the biographer and have the complex view, but I’m the reader. She did some chilling and scary stuff. The irony is that she was meant to be the great representative of the oppressed, but the people that she hurt were poor, young, Black, and defenseless. She was capable of terrible violence. But as a biographer, I’m also interested in the fact that she was capable of deep sympathy and love and commitment. My puzzle was to put that all together in one psyche and one human being, and I think that in the end, I saw these amazing antinomies in her, not as contradictions, but as part of one psychic architecture. Young Winnie and older Winnie — do you think it’s a big difference in terms of moral behavior? Or she’s more or less the same quality person throughout?…
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