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Lenny Rachitsky: belief

2 Feb 2025 Lenny's Podcast Tobi Lütke’s leadership playbook: Playing infinite games, operating from first principles, and maximizing human potential (founder and CEO of Shopify)

“To be clear, the reason this is unusual is, and why someone told me this story, is most CEOs do not do this, don't just sit there and code along with the team. And the reason I thought this story was important is and the reason I think your first principle approach works is you're actually in the engineering details, similar to Elon if you think about it, of just in the weeds doing the thing, understanding how the thing works, not just coming up with ideas out of pontifications.”

— Lenny Rachitsky

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Everything needed to verify it.

Speaker
Lenny Rachitsky
Attribution
Verified speaker
Claim type
belief
Recorded
2 Feb 2025
Publisher
Lenny's Podcast

Transcript context

…It's so funny that that's the way the story goes. It's right, but I don't know why that is surprising. That's my happy place, being able to clear out free days of my calendar and being there till midnight with all these remarkable people who join us on journey, just building stuff. It's like, I do my job so that that is the jobs that exist for other people. That's a job I actually want. That's the one I couldn't find because no one did a company for me. But at least back in most days, I think still not really. And so I just love coding. It's one of the greatest, I don't know, hobbies and pursuits. I've done it for a very long time. I came across it very, very early. It fits my brain like a glove. I appreciate so much of the craft behind coding. I am a trained apprentice in... Sorry, I've apprenticed as a programmer in Germany, which has a dual education system that you can do such things. So I've been professionally in companies spending all day. And I really mean it, programming ever since I just turned 16. I think first day was just before I turned 16 when I started my apprenticeship. And so I love it. I have a view on my screen left of you is a cursor right now, which is opened to a Juniper notebook where I'm working on some projection stuff that I'm playing with. I try to sanity-check as much as I can of what I get. I try to find... It's a game for me to find new insights in data. And I just think, I don't know, it was cool. Maybe this is the picture you talk about. There is a picture that someone captured, which is really fun where I'm on my laptop with a bunch of engineers and then Harley, so president, is on stage DJing. This was taken at 1:00 AM or something like this. It's a picture which actually really precious to two of us because it perfectly summarizes our relationship in a way which these happy accidents are wonderful and these long journeys, I've been doing Shopify for 20 years now, so I appreciate these artifacts. But yeah, so... To be clear, the reason this is unusual is, and why someone told me this story, is most CEOs do not do this, don't just sit there and code along with the team. And the reason I thought this story was important is and the reason I think your first principle approach works is you're actually in the engineering details, similar to Elon if you think about it, of just in the weeds doing the thing, understanding how the thing works, not just coming up with ideas out of pontifications. And so I guess is there anything there of just how important it is, if you want to approach thinking from first principles, it is to be really close to the metal, to the bare metal? Well, yeah. First principles thinking starts from, I think Elon puts it as physics, which I think is a little bit atoms-coded. I think just from the atomic building blocks really is a right starting point. Atomic building blocks are the computers we are using. Computers are our instruments. We use them to create the music that when people appreciate to receive in the form of software. So you've got to understand how they work, at least to work the way I do. Now, is the way I work optimal? Of course not. This is my point about the aesthetics of how to behave, how to work. I probably don't conform to the traditional view of what the most of public companies should be like or even should spend their time, but I think I'm successful because I don't try to conform to anything other than what I've learned works. And so what I learned works is be in as many details as you can. Really, really, really just understand the stuff that we are making decisions about and be willing to don't put too much stake into the sunk cost fallacy. Try to inoculate business or your parts of a company from a sunk cost fallacy as much as possible because that allows you to just see better solutions and so on. And I think what we were doing, if I remember right, is at hack dates is we were working through pros or cons of just merging all of Shopify into one huge monorepo and we are sketching out directory structures and tooling that we would need, and... ... tooling that we would need and... Again, monorepo, now for companies, it's a very much one of those door A, door B kind of things. It's a very consequential choice that is incorrect to go say yes to at a certain size, and then it becomes very correct in my mind to say yes to, but at that point it's an enormous amount of effort. So, it's a kind of thing that actually is something I'm uniquely positioned to be involved with because it's actually a business strategy thing as well. That's an investment, a very real investment to say, "Hey, let's change the way we are building system. Let's figure out what the best way is." There's going to be change management. There's going to be some people that have very strong opinions on yes or no. And frankly, "Tobi said so. ", helps. It also compresses a lot of time, because everyone knows the way I book. Everyone can come to me with better ideas about anything, and if you're right, I will change my mind. But I will hold my opinions very strongly until the point of being convinced that they're not the correct ideas. Maybe that's another aspect of this Tobi Tornado thing you talked about earlier, people do fight. Again, the aesthetics of our times put a lot of stake into consistency. I remember various politicians losing campaigns because they were called flip-floppers at times, which I... Although, I'm more of a Maynard Keynes school of... "When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?" It sounds like a better OS to go by.…

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